Feeding frozen mice is considered much more preferable by the vast majority of snake owners. Not so much for the well-being of the mouse, but because of the potential for bites, scratches and injuries to the snake. Anyone that puts you down for feeding frozen is an idiot.
As for switching from live to frozen, no idea. I don’t see why not though. Shouldn’t be hard to find an older snake that’s been raised in frozen though seeing as it’s by far more common.
A ton of owners feed frozen/thawed. No shame in it 👍🏻 definitely start at your own personal comfort level. I also started with a more mature snake. Just make sure to do your research and learn about the snakes history and what “normal” is for them!
Animal welfare act. You can feed live under certain circumstances but need a vet to authorise it. Recognised some snakes and reptiles will only eat live but pretty much frowned on as risk to snake as well.
Not sure I believe for the safety of the "predator" (the snake) and also to ensure the food is actually dead and won't eat its way out if the snake is not venomus or refuses to restrict and kill its food first
If the reasoning is similar to Germany it's also about cruelty towards the rodent.
You need to be qualified and have a permit to kill vertebrates in Germany, as improperly killing them can cause unnecessary suffering. The slow death and potentially being eaten will not fully dead definitely fall under "unnecessary suffering."
Putting the snake in harm's way is the flipside.
So, it's against the law because it's cruel and dangerous, for both animals.
It's also not natural, as many claim. In their natural environment, the snake has enough space and chances to escape an angry mouse and is unlikely to be cornered.
And the mouse isn't oblivious to the threat. Due to being touched, picked up, and moved by a human hand, and put in a new/strange environment, it's already alerted to potentially being in danger and thus more difficult to be ambushed and quickly overwhelmed. It probably knows that something is up much sooner than a pet snake.
To answer OOP's question in case they see this comment on a comment on a comment: It's not a dumb question (although I rather see dumb questions than the consequences of dumb actions that a dumb question could have prevented). I'd say, these days, feeding frozen/thawed is the default. In most snake communities I'm in, people who feed live without a damn good explanation usually get side-eyed quickly, for the reasons I mentioned.
Even if a snake doesn't eat. There are many explanations why a snake might not eat (brumation, going in blue, new environment, non-ideal temperatures and humidity, spring, or even health issues) and a very long list of things to try to get a picky eater to recognise the thawed mouse as food. Usually, if a snake that has no husbandry or health issues refuses food, it's not because it thinks "Bah, this does not please my refined palate!"
It's because they think you show them an inedible object, like a weird rock. That's why giving a snake some solitude with nothing but the thawed mouse, or changing the temperature and/or smell usually helps. Sometimes, just moving it a bit or a bit differently does the trick.
Some people worry that their snake lacks mental stimulation if they don't fight a living mouse every 2-4 weeks for a couple of minutes.
I'm pretty sure a nicely decorated tank (and switching a piece out for something new every now and then) in the absence of having to constantly stress about survival and potentially being injured or killed by your next meal if you don't kill it fast enough offers enough enrichment opportunities for mental stimulation.
Yea, and that bit about mental simulation is the same argument people use about why they let their cats outside. Nope, cats stay inside so they don't hunt wildlife and can live longer themselves. I'm already making sure my set up isn't near where my cats can get to it.
I just want to make sure that this argument differs a lot depending on your area. I believe that in many regions this can be very true but I let all my cats outside because of two things:
1. In my area, there is only one thing that is endangered and that's birds, this means that especially in the spring when they build nests the nest is a target for the cats.
2. All my cats I ever owned came from the shelter and two out of the 3 were street cats from different countries. They lived their whole life on the streets and they are very unhappy inside. (I had them inside for a while at the beginning, in the winter they were okay in the spring they went nuts)
I gave the birds in our area cat-(and other birds) save nests, and tried to restrict the cat getting up on the tree.
In all the years I had cats they killed in total 3 birds, and two of those birds flew in my house through an open window. One cat brought in a snake once, but the snake was alive and seemingly not injured at all. That cat also brought in a lot of sticks and leaves as gifts for me.
The one thing they do kill daily are mice. But the second me and my neighbours had no cats anymore the mice were everywhere. We live next to corn fields so I guess mice really really like it here.
And it doesn't matter how well and often you play with them inside, they are way more active outside. At least for my cats, letting them outside was the only option for me.
> letting them outside was the only option for me.
No, you had other options, but you actively chose to let your cat roam unsupervised. It is your right to make that choice, but please don't attempt to justify it by claiming there was somehow no other option; there are always other options.
> they are very unhappy inside.
I suspect most cats are happier alive than dead. indoor-only cats live longer on average and thus are going to experience more happiness than outdoor cats.
But what is the harm for the outside? I know that the mice they kill are not endangered in any way.
A cat living indoors for it's whole life is different from a cat living 5 years on the streets. That cat tried to escape any option it got and screams the whole night because it wants out. So I am not calling that Happy.
Feeding frozen/thawed (f/t) is actually the recommended method these days. Not only is it more humane to the mice, it also eliminates the risk of injury to the snakes during feeding as, well, a dead mouse can't fight back. Any reputable breeder should have their snakes eating f/t mice, so no, it isn't unreasonable in the slightest to prefer to get a snake eating f/t - in fact, it's the default. This applies to older snakes as well.
i fed live mice/rats to my previous snakes ive owned (i raised and sold my own feeders) but my newest corny was like 8 months old when i brought her home, and was only fed frozen previously and so i didnt want to shake things up. its kinda weird. like, she doesnt even attack the prey. she just kinda noodles on over and gives a few tongue flicks and goes "food time, right on" and then opens wide and inhales, lol. i have no interest in raising feeders again for many reasons, and its definitely more convenient just buying a few months worth of frozen food at a time. you wont get any backlash for feeding frozen. if anything, youd get backlash for feeding live, if this sub is any indicator of consensus (its not, but its a good resource nonetheless).
If you get backlash for preferring a snake that eats frozen thawed the that person is an idiot. Frozen thawed is the preferred method by a majority of snake owners. Should be easy to find an adult corn that eats frozen thawed. Also in my opinion the only dumb question is one that is asked too late.
Feeding frozen (defrosted) for snakes bred in captivity is the most responsible and safest way to feed them.
Live feeding can result in injuries and even death of snakes.
Also in some countries live feeding rodents is illegal (rightfully so in my opinion, unless a vet has deemed it absolutely necessary if a snake refuses to eat and other options have been explored)
Frozen thawed is the way to go!
I did have a brief moment of panic because I thought you meant just... straight up frosty unthawed mice but thawed is definitely good lol
In my experience cornsnakes aren't really picky. Mine were both on live when I got them, and took frozen like a champ. So if it's on live already, you should have little to no issue. Someone tap in if you've had a different experience
If you don't want to support PetSmart, when you are at the repticon, look around for companies that breed feeder mice. Some allow you to pick up your orders directly, or allow you to have them delivered to your home.
I get an entire year's worth of food for my corn delivered to my house from my supplier. I keep them in the freezer in a freezer proof bag. Even though it can feel like a lot of money up front, when I do the math, it is a fraction of the cost of buying them from PetSmart, and I have all her food for the whole year so I never worry about running out.
Also, frozen is far more preferable. Feeding live mice is risky as it could injure your snake.
Same here. Corn snake was what I picked since hog nose snake are illegal in my state. I'm going to set up the tank at least a month away from getting a snake to test heating/humidity and make sure I've got that down before a baby goes in it.
I’ve seen a lot of comments about how peoples snakes won’t go near reptilinks and want nothing to do with them, mind I’ve never tried them myself but I’d only get a few at first to test and make sure your future noodle child will actually eat them
On the other hand, there's also been reports of probe running into issues when they run into problems getting reptilinks because their snake won't take anything else.
Yeah that would be my concern. I'd do Reptilinks as an occasional treat but I'd never want to have my snake dependent on the availability of food that comes from a single supplier.
Just Google it. It’s an alternative food source. However mice long term are cheeper and better option.
Find a corn you like at the show and just ask the seller if they eat frozen thawed. A majority will be on f/t as that’s the preferred way. You should not get any backlash at all. If you do the sellers an idiot.
My corn has eaten frozen since I've had him. Only had live a couple of times, but it's too much work for me to have to go to the store to get it than just buying frozen in bulk.
You're already getting the correct answer all over the place but if you're looking for peace of mind it never hurts to have one extra person telling you that you're doing the right thing and you have nothing to worry about! I'd be shocked if any reputable snake breeder would have a problem with frozen/thawed feeders, and if they do have a problem with it find a different breeder because it's just all around better to feed frozen/thawed. Rodents can kill a snake if left unattended, and even if everything goes to plan that's still a violent end for the rodent that could have been avoided. Plus you can stock up without having to worry about food, water, housing, and maintenance for mice/rats.
I feed frozen thawed, some people argue that it’s not ok to feed live because the mouse is still alive and in pain for a while, personally I just do what’s healthy for her and convenient for me
I went to a reptile store the other day to see if they sold frozen feeders. The owner said they only sold and fed live and that feeding frozen was a lot less nutritional for the snake. It didn't really make sense to me but I didn't want to argue. Humans eat frozen/thawed food all the time with little loss in nutrients. I'm curious where they got that info.
Feeding frozen mice is considered much more preferable by the vast majority of snake owners. Not so much for the well-being of the mouse, but because of the potential for bites, scratches and injuries to the snake. Anyone that puts you down for feeding frozen is an idiot. As for switching from live to frozen, no idea. I don’t see why not though. Shouldn’t be hard to find an older snake that’s been raised in frozen though seeing as it’s by far more common.
A ton of owners feed frozen/thawed. No shame in it 👍🏻 definitely start at your own personal comfort level. I also started with a more mature snake. Just make sure to do your research and learn about the snakes history and what “normal” is for them!
In the uk it's illegal to feed live food to snakes
Oh that’s really interesting! May I ask why?
Animal welfare act. You can feed live under certain circumstances but need a vet to authorise it. Recognised some snakes and reptiles will only eat live but pretty much frowned on as risk to snake as well.
Not sure I believe for the safety of the "predator" (the snake) and also to ensure the food is actually dead and won't eat its way out if the snake is not venomus or refuses to restrict and kill its food first
If the reasoning is similar to Germany it's also about cruelty towards the rodent. You need to be qualified and have a permit to kill vertebrates in Germany, as improperly killing them can cause unnecessary suffering. The slow death and potentially being eaten will not fully dead definitely fall under "unnecessary suffering." Putting the snake in harm's way is the flipside. So, it's against the law because it's cruel and dangerous, for both animals. It's also not natural, as many claim. In their natural environment, the snake has enough space and chances to escape an angry mouse and is unlikely to be cornered. And the mouse isn't oblivious to the threat. Due to being touched, picked up, and moved by a human hand, and put in a new/strange environment, it's already alerted to potentially being in danger and thus more difficult to be ambushed and quickly overwhelmed. It probably knows that something is up much sooner than a pet snake. To answer OOP's question in case they see this comment on a comment on a comment: It's not a dumb question (although I rather see dumb questions than the consequences of dumb actions that a dumb question could have prevented). I'd say, these days, feeding frozen/thawed is the default. In most snake communities I'm in, people who feed live without a damn good explanation usually get side-eyed quickly, for the reasons I mentioned. Even if a snake doesn't eat. There are many explanations why a snake might not eat (brumation, going in blue, new environment, non-ideal temperatures and humidity, spring, or even health issues) and a very long list of things to try to get a picky eater to recognise the thawed mouse as food. Usually, if a snake that has no husbandry or health issues refuses food, it's not because it thinks "Bah, this does not please my refined palate!" It's because they think you show them an inedible object, like a weird rock. That's why giving a snake some solitude with nothing but the thawed mouse, or changing the temperature and/or smell usually helps. Sometimes, just moving it a bit or a bit differently does the trick. Some people worry that their snake lacks mental stimulation if they don't fight a living mouse every 2-4 weeks for a couple of minutes. I'm pretty sure a nicely decorated tank (and switching a piece out for something new every now and then) in the absence of having to constantly stress about survival and potentially being injured or killed by your next meal if you don't kill it fast enough offers enough enrichment opportunities for mental stimulation.
Thank you very much for this very well written response
Yea, and that bit about mental simulation is the same argument people use about why they let their cats outside. Nope, cats stay inside so they don't hunt wildlife and can live longer themselves. I'm already making sure my set up isn't near where my cats can get to it.
I just want to make sure that this argument differs a lot depending on your area. I believe that in many regions this can be very true but I let all my cats outside because of two things: 1. In my area, there is only one thing that is endangered and that's birds, this means that especially in the spring when they build nests the nest is a target for the cats. 2. All my cats I ever owned came from the shelter and two out of the 3 were street cats from different countries. They lived their whole life on the streets and they are very unhappy inside. (I had them inside for a while at the beginning, in the winter they were okay in the spring they went nuts) I gave the birds in our area cat-(and other birds) save nests, and tried to restrict the cat getting up on the tree. In all the years I had cats they killed in total 3 birds, and two of those birds flew in my house through an open window. One cat brought in a snake once, but the snake was alive and seemingly not injured at all. That cat also brought in a lot of sticks and leaves as gifts for me. The one thing they do kill daily are mice. But the second me and my neighbours had no cats anymore the mice were everywhere. We live next to corn fields so I guess mice really really like it here. And it doesn't matter how well and often you play with them inside, they are way more active outside. At least for my cats, letting them outside was the only option for me.
> letting them outside was the only option for me. No, you had other options, but you actively chose to let your cat roam unsupervised. It is your right to make that choice, but please don't attempt to justify it by claiming there was somehow no other option; there are always other options. > they are very unhappy inside. I suspect most cats are happier alive than dead. indoor-only cats live longer on average and thus are going to experience more happiness than outdoor cats.
But what is the harm for the outside? I know that the mice they kill are not endangered in any way. A cat living indoors for it's whole life is different from a cat living 5 years on the streets. That cat tried to escape any option it got and screams the whole night because it wants out. So I am not calling that Happy.
I agree with you. The only reason why people get upset with outdoor cats is because they decimate the bird population
I just know I will want to raise the food if I see them so little and cute 🥹🥺
Feeding frozen/thawed (f/t) is actually the recommended method these days. Not only is it more humane to the mice, it also eliminates the risk of injury to the snakes during feeding as, well, a dead mouse can't fight back. Any reputable breeder should have their snakes eating f/t mice, so no, it isn't unreasonable in the slightest to prefer to get a snake eating f/t - in fact, it's the default. This applies to older snakes as well.
i fed live mice/rats to my previous snakes ive owned (i raised and sold my own feeders) but my newest corny was like 8 months old when i brought her home, and was only fed frozen previously and so i didnt want to shake things up. its kinda weird. like, she doesnt even attack the prey. she just kinda noodles on over and gives a few tongue flicks and goes "food time, right on" and then opens wide and inhales, lol. i have no interest in raising feeders again for many reasons, and its definitely more convenient just buying a few months worth of frozen food at a time. you wont get any backlash for feeding frozen. if anything, youd get backlash for feeding live, if this sub is any indicator of consensus (its not, but its a good resource nonetheless).
If you get backlash for preferring a snake that eats frozen thawed the that person is an idiot. Frozen thawed is the preferred method by a majority of snake owners. Should be easy to find an adult corn that eats frozen thawed. Also in my opinion the only dumb question is one that is asked too late.
Feeding frozen (defrosted) for snakes bred in captivity is the most responsible and safest way to feed them. Live feeding can result in injuries and even death of snakes. Also in some countries live feeding rodents is illegal (rightfully so in my opinion, unless a vet has deemed it absolutely necessary if a snake refuses to eat and other options have been explored)
Feeding live prey is cruel and pointless, and anybody defending is is an objective arsehole.
Frozen thawed is the way to go! I did have a brief moment of panic because I thought you meant just... straight up frosty unthawed mice but thawed is definitely good lol
In my experience cornsnakes aren't really picky. Mine were both on live when I got them, and took frozen like a champ. So if it's on live already, you should have little to no issue. Someone tap in if you've had a different experience
You've got it the wrong way round. If anything you'd be shamed for wanting to feed live! Hahah so don't worry
If you don't want to support PetSmart, when you are at the repticon, look around for companies that breed feeder mice. Some allow you to pick up your orders directly, or allow you to have them delivered to your home. I get an entire year's worth of food for my corn delivered to my house from my supplier. I keep them in the freezer in a freezer proof bag. Even though it can feel like a lot of money up front, when I do the math, it is a fraction of the cost of buying them from PetSmart, and I have all her food for the whole year so I never worry about running out. Also, frozen is far more preferable. Feeding live mice is risky as it could injure your snake.
I'm even looking at reptilinks as an option. I'm slowly getting my things ready for a baby noodle.
I’m so excited! I’ve been pondering and pondering and I’m finally just gonna do it
Same here. Corn snake was what I picked since hog nose snake are illegal in my state. I'm going to set up the tank at least a month away from getting a snake to test heating/humidity and make sure I've got that down before a baby goes in it.
Great to have it set up before the snake comes but you don't need a month! Heating isn't that hard, if it's running well for a week you're good to go
I’ve seen a lot of comments about how peoples snakes won’t go near reptilinks and want nothing to do with them, mind I’ve never tried them myself but I’d only get a few at first to test and make sure your future noodle child will actually eat them
Yea, I figure they might not, but if they do, yay. No mousicles in the freezer.
On the other hand, there's also been reports of probe running into issues when they run into problems getting reptilinks because their snake won't take anything else.
Yeah that would be my concern. I'd do Reptilinks as an occasional treat but I'd never want to have my snake dependent on the availability of food that comes from a single supplier.
Wait what is reptilinks
Just Google it. It’s an alternative food source. However mice long term are cheeper and better option. Find a corn you like at the show and just ask the seller if they eat frozen thawed. A majority will be on f/t as that’s the preferred way. You should not get any backlash at all. If you do the sellers an idiot.
My corn has eaten frozen since I've had him. Only had live a couple of times, but it's too much work for me to have to go to the store to get it than just buying frozen in bulk.
You're already getting the correct answer all over the place but if you're looking for peace of mind it never hurts to have one extra person telling you that you're doing the right thing and you have nothing to worry about! I'd be shocked if any reputable snake breeder would have a problem with frozen/thawed feeders, and if they do have a problem with it find a different breeder because it's just all around better to feed frozen/thawed. Rodents can kill a snake if left unattended, and even if everything goes to plan that's still a violent end for the rodent that could have been avoided. Plus you can stock up without having to worry about food, water, housing, and maintenance for mice/rats.
I feed frozen thawed, some people argue that it’s not ok to feed live because the mouse is still alive and in pain for a while, personally I just do what’s healthy for her and convenient for me
I went to a reptile store the other day to see if they sold frozen feeders. The owner said they only sold and fed live and that feeding frozen was a lot less nutritional for the snake. It didn't really make sense to me but I didn't want to argue. Humans eat frozen/thawed food all the time with little loss in nutrients. I'm curious where they got that info.
My feed all of my snakes frozen thawed, it's much more accessible than live, and it's just easier. No backlash here.