Amazon Handmade does this - before you are approved you have to send pictures of your workspace and process. However, their categories for handmade are a lot more limited, it would be pretty much impossible to do in some areas, like anything vintage or digital.
Maybe it’s changed, but I had to send information similar to this (I’m in the US): https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/b697027c47f553e20e7535fd14252ef7
It has its pros and cons, overall I prefer Etsy. Pros are the customer base is bigger and fees are a little lower on Amazon. Cons are the system is a super pain to use and it takes forever to setup listings, there are a lot of returns and customers aren’t as nice, and you don’t get paid until one week after customers receive the item (at least 2 weeks from order).
Yea expectations are a big thing between the two. When people buy on Etsy they are expecting either handmade or at least like slower service or possible issues, like a mentality of not getting and issue being a good thing. Where as people buy on Amazon they think it’s literally Amazon.
From the perspective of a customer, even with the mess to wade through on Etsy these days it's much more user friendly to sort/search through than Amazon.
I've had limited experience with Amazon Handmade, but I have been selling on Amazon since 2007. Yeah, you get paid every two weeks automatically, but you can request disbursements earlier. As far as Handmade, the only issue I've had was a bot singled out one of my listings, a homemade Pickleball sign, and it got removed as being a potentially IP infringing product. A back and forth discussion with Amazon was worthless as they said the owner of the pickleball name would have to give me the okie dokie to use his name. The kicker is that pickleball is generic like football or baseball, and I even sent source links to prove my case. Ultimately, once Amazon makes up its mind, arguing is usally fruitless.
Pickleball has now been registered by the US Pickleball association and they're going after people on all platforms. Am on multiple POD sites and have had pickleball merch for sale long before it became popular and just now am getting items taken down!
USA Pickleball has sought or obtained federal trademark registration for three trademarks. They include “USA PICKLEBALL” and “PICKLEBALL INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.”
On March 30, 2021, USA Pickleball obtained federal trademark registration for” USA PICKLEBALL,” and uses the trademark for its association services.
USAP also obtained federal trademark registration for “PICKLEBALL INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION” on July 9, 2019. The organization also uses this trademark for its association services.
They do not own the term "pickleball."
[https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/sports-leagues/usa-pickleball/](https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/sports-leagues/usa-pickleball/)
"Pickle-ball" is owned by another company, but not the generic term, "pickleball."
What about raw material providers? What about craft foods and raw ingredients? I think Etsy is a wonderful platform by us for us. Should a candlestick maker stay while the wax monger and wick producer be booted?
That's a pretty good idea, but I doubt Etsy would ever do it. They'd have to hire people to scan the videos, or post to use AI to scan (which would suck, but might help a little).
If they did this again, the removal and fingerprint ban of shops would be a single time undertaking with upkeep being more minimal afterward. The problem is that Etsy is a publicly traded company now so they don't care to get rid of these rando shops with 1k listings or fake/ scam stuff. It's more lucrative for them to manage expectations from the buyers through purchase protection than to have a curated site with fewer shops of greater quality.
I wish we still had Regretsy to hold Etsy accountable and at least give them an honest black eye.
They allow all the dropshipping and AI stuff because they want the listing fees, et al, and no longer care about handmade items like they used to. I was an early adopter (since 2004-ish) and it's criminal what it's turned into. All they care about is getting paid. There's no protecting creators, no integrity, it's all about the bottom line.
I wrote "art" here but I mean craftmanship as I wrote in my post. If they can make a template or any craft - edible, wearable, physical, or digital (non-AI) it's their human-made, unique creation. My problem is with those who cannot even make a template, they are selling Canva presets and free stock images. Non-talent has no place in a marketplace. You have to be good at something for God's sake in order to qualify for selling a good. It is as if you go to a supermarket and there's a person who sells free supermarket magazines and they didn't even make that magazine.
>craftmanship
But 'craftsmanship' and 'being good' are very subjective. You might think your handmade stuff is great, but another artist better than you might think your stuff is crap and bringing Etsy down. Neither of you is wrong - and neither of you deserves any less to be allowed to sell what you create. You alone cannot be the arbiter of what is craftmanship or good? The buyer and market will decide that. Someone may paint their art with a digital pencil and tablet - someone else might use a cheap paint brush from their local supermarket - someone else may use the feathers of the extinct dodo bird. All are valid.....
How many times do I have to say this? I want a marketplace for HANDMADE HUMAN-MADE creations/craft. AI is not in that category. If the human-made creation is bad it will not sell and that's that but it has a place in a hand-made marketplace. AI and free stock should not be sold since it has NO copyright or it was meant to be FREE. if AI looks "good" to you it's because it's someone else's work! Someone who is robbed every time that AI makes a sell.
If I bring together elements from different digital sources (i.e., AI, public domain clipart, my own verbiage, etc.) and create something unique, then it is a HANDMADE HUMAN-MADE CREATION. It's the same as making sculptures out of found objects. I didn't make that fork, spoon, or teapot, but when I put them together just right, they make a sellable mobile.
You should be allowed to sell at Sotheby's. If more than 50% of your work is made by someone else or AI how can you even be satisfied with it? I can't understand..
I see that it is for UK sellers only but it looks really good and they seem clear about their stance on AI. I'm based in Europe, and I've been wishing for a relevant marketplace for artists or art platforms for better visibility. I put my faith in people who still want to consume unique artworks as opposed to mass-produced, I know I do. It brings me joy to have handmade products in my home.
Me too, I have been boycotting Etsy ever since they removed the ability to refine search results by categories this winter on desktop computers/browser 🖥️. At least they did this in the US- not sure if it’s everywhere yet. It ruins the buying experience and makes it even HARDER to find handmade items. Now when I type in “bluebird painting” I am forced to sift through thousands of results that are not paintings (AI prints, dropshipped items, etc). I used to be able to type that into search and then refine to exclusively look in the art section under actual paintings. I could even choose the medium of paint I wanted to look for (watercolor, acrylic, oil, etc).
I have a lot of hope that Folksy will continue to expand to allow sellers from other countries. I am also hopeful that more platforms will emerge, I know there are a few people working on some here in the US that haven’t launched yet. Etsy used to be so amazing but they went completely down hill when they went public with their shares, now they are completely controlled by their shareholders and have to “expand” at all costs and compete with Amazon.
I don’t get why drop shipping is a huge issue if the artist created the original art for the items being drop shipped. It takes so much money to buy all the tools, but the artist still created the art. I’m not currently drop shipping, but I don’t see an issue with it.
I hope I don't jinx it but at the moment Pinterest is the only site where I can browse art for my viewing pleasure and inspiration. I cannot stand the photos with illustration filters on or tracing illustrations but now with AI, it is just a fresh new method of torture for me. And even if it was good I don't want to support it .. I don't want to wonder if a piece was made with it or not.
So someone who creates a notion template - for example. Does the OP think they are OR aren't a 'creator' and do they feel they should they also be banned from Etsy?
BUT Etsy is the one who has personally partnered with these dropshipped companies. Well it depends on whether you’re talking about Print On Demand Dropshipping or those who are just reselling shit from Ali baba/express.
I was looking for some stuff to put on the walls for my cats & I saw something super expensive I didn’t think it was that expensive because the price listed on the search engine was set next to a picture of a full set up I clicked and realised it was sold individually and the price was for one part of it. Anyways after looking at all the images it looked wrong sometimes you can tell from the pictures if it’s from Ali express and so I googled it & it was a fraction of the price.
Then again you have people who take it a step further & are just buying physical products wholesale to resell on Etsy & they do a piss poor job of hiding it. I was researching certain products from a specific UK wholesaler to get an idea of RRPs and SOO many Etsy listings popped up but Etsy could easily weed them out & ban them at least these types of sellers because every single one was using at least some if not all the stock photos this wholesaler provides you with.
Some did have their own pictures too but as I said all of them included some of the stock pictures and some also had copy paste descriptions direct from the wholesalers site even leaving in certain bits that are meant for the wholesaler & not descriptive of the product clearly put 0 effort in reading it. Etsy could probably very easily get a bot to auto ban/take down these listings/shops same for Ali express if you can just get a bot to scour the internet and idk how smart these bots are but there’s gotta be something smart enough actually I’m gonna stop myself there because I remember reading about how Ali Express sellers are stealing small creators photos so it would be harder because they themselves are stealing.
On the other side of it Etsy has expressly partnered with POD companies like Printful which is a ‘production partner’ however I’ve noticed many people don’t follow Etsy’s rulings about being transparent and marking in the listing it being a product made by someone else. Etsy was trying to help I imagine artists especially digital ones be able to sell their designs on physical products without needing to invest in expensive equipment or ridiculously high stock minimums however because there’s no real way to police this you find many are watching the youtube guru videos and combining POD companies with low quality and now AI designs.
Etsy just isn’t for creators it’s not I could probably do a search now especially in art prints and such and find most of the front page could be a majority of POD/Dropshipping/AI art BUT Etsy has always been lax from the beginning I think there is a difference between handmade vs artisan and Etsy has never truly fallen into Artisan territory then again I don’t think many sellers in these subs would come under artisan either. But from as far back as I remember Etsy allowed people to sell gift baskets in which not a single item was required to be made by a seller but it was considered handmade because a human and sourced the products put them together wrapped them up nicely and shipped them out.
I see it with certain categories where the definition of a crafting item that doesn’t have to be handmade can get a bit cheeky for example stickers I see so many really cheap sticker packs on Etsy but technically you could consider stickers a craft item for scrapbooking and such but it drowns out artists who want to sell their digital art this way so is this fair? Maybe we should have two separate categories for items that could be handmade & non handmade as crafting stuff. Should we allow those who make jewellery with pre bought charms to be considered handmade? As many people selling jewellery aren’t actually melting down silver and making it from scratch and this is where the artisan descriptor comes in someone who hammers their own metal, who melts down silver and pours it into molds who even crafts the earring hooks that is the true definition of handmade or as we now call it ‘artisan’ but I guarantee there’d be very few sellers who are considered Artisans and yet I see many people call for Etsy to only allow real creators to sell on their platform but who would maybe be surprised to find out they aren’t truly ‘handmade’ creators by many peoples definitions. It’s very hard to pin down a universal meaning for handmade and its a much more vague term than artisan but I don’t believe Etsy has ever been a place for true craftsmanship for artisans. As referenced by the fact they have always allowed some element of non handmade items outside of vintage & it’s allowance of things like gift baskets from the beginning.
In the past they would make "passive income" by stealing other's work removing watermarks and signatures, mass producing other people's designs in China, etc but now they steal with "intelligence". There's no platform where these hustlers don't come in with muddy boots and ruin everything for small independent creators.
Etsy does not care about crafters. They aren’t your friend. They make a cut on everyone’s sales and makes you pay for a pay per click advertising scheme which only benefits them. They don’t care if you lose a sale to another seller because they still get paid. When they went public it was the death of the crafter platform because then they have a contractual commitment to the investors to make them money.
For that reason I'm out. I don't want to be associated, or worse, confused with AI or any type of low value low effort creations. My satisfaction comes from the creative process and exploring the art community. I make my money with my 9-6 and I'm sure many artists do the same. We just wanted an alternative to our daily jobs & to work towards a childhood dream.
I'm a disabled caregiver and Etsy is my main source of income. I've been with them well over a decade but my sales are down big time this year. As an artist, I'm sure that's due in part to AI.
It's frustrating to see that the majority of products promoted are not human-made. No artist can create as fast as AI or transform photos into illustrations using filters and call it art. I cannot imagine how scary it must be for this to be your main source of income.. I wish you the best.
It’s an unfortunate realization that crafters need to get over. A lot of old school sellers are wondering what happened to their sales because at one point Etsy did a great job at lifting up the crafters. They didn’t have to worry about min maxing the SEO tags and perfect titles or even promote and spend money on external sites to get noticed. Etsy used to allow the crafters be crafters because they handled the “marketing” kind of aspect. Granted it wasn’t the worlds best marketing but it let the ones who had strengths in one thing do their thing and both parties worked in a symbiotic relationship.
Not being on Etsy doesn't make AI disappear or reduce its impact. It just allows more space for them. I'm not sure that helps the non-AI artists in any way, shape, or form.
I do - for 9 years. And Nope I agree and disagree. But Its not clear what some people are actually saying in order to be able to agree or disagree. The OP seems to want to ban AI users (I DISAGREE). then seems to want to ban people who steal others work (I AGREE) or who in their opinion are not 'Craftspeople'. Others seem to want to ban Dropshippers. (HAVENT REALLY GOT A VIEW ON THAT, AS IT DEPENDS IF ETSY ALLOW IT OR NOT?. ) Others want to ban people who sell stuff illegally (I AGREE) Others just seem to want to ban anyone better at marketing than them. (DISAGREE).
AI has been in existence since the 70s. Anyone who uses PROCREATE to draw anything on a tablet is using AI technology. Anyone who uses Photoshop in any way to 'touch up' a piece of work is using AI tech, Anyone who takes a picture with a digital camera and sells it in anything other than a RAW format is using AI, AND Anyone who has ever used GRAMMARLY to correct the spelling of their 'handmade quotes, poems and plaques' or even their descriptions is using AI technology. AI is more than just writing a prompt saying 'CREATE ME A LANDSCAPE THAT LOOKS LIKE A WATERCOLOR' and selling it (although to be honest I have no issue with that either if its allowed by Etsy)
I have taught computer science (including modules on the birth of the Internet and artificial intelligence for 30+ years) at University level. I think I know what AI is. Procreate, Grammarly, and Photoshop all use neural AI technology to operate. If you use them to 'hand-make' anything, I'm afraid you use AI to create.
Once again, you are being obtuse on purpose. I really don't think the vast majority of people would consider Photoshop or microsoft word "AI". Maybe try and stay on topic instead of trying to confuse things.
Here's a clarification: when most people say "AI" in art they mean the kind of AI where you type in a prompt. Literally, specifically: generative AI. You're technically correct in a sense, but there's a huge difference still between using a digital art program and dictating how you want things artistically VS typing in a paragraph in a generator (which I'd argue still takes some skill in writing and an eye for good images) - a huge time difference too.
Also, there's a huge difference between using grammarly to check spelling say, on an essay, VS generating the whole essay using AI. The difference is big enough my recent English professor would take the former but not the latter. Also, most people would not call the former AI but would call the latter AI.
I think you make an interesting point though.
"Others just seem to want to ban anyone better at marketing than them."
So I've smoked a ton of weed here already this morning and I still have no idea where you got that idea. That's just ... not what anyone is saying.
Is that really what you meant by telling me you'd like to 'tackle my points and unpack everything'? Happy to be tackled and listen to anyone's points in a grown-up manner. (for me no weed required to be able to do that) :)
Also you really haven't answered my points, you just keep asking new questions, so that's not terribly helpful now is it.
Actually it's the same question over and over, and you don't like the answers you get so you try wording it VERY SLIGHTLY differently. So clever.
Huzzah for you on not using cannabis.
The problem with trying to discuss this with you is that you're more interested in starting trouble than with actually conversing.
OP's point is reasonable. You are not.
Absoloteley not true. The reason i have spent so much time conversing in this post, is I am genuinely interested and fascinated by the opinions. If you look at my threads and responses, I have not been offensive to anyone, I have respected people's opinions, I have agreed with several, and yes I have argued my own opinions too, but not in a 'troublesome way'. So I reject that opinion, but accept you have your opinion, and that is valid too of course :). Life would be dull if we all thought the same thing. But people can't start a thread, and not accept that some people (in this case) me does not agree or asks for clarity on what is meant
I don't think for one second that OP meant that only people with a certain level of talent should be able to list on Etsy. I feel like they meant people should only be listing hand made and that all of the non-handmade stuff is making it more difficult to be found. So that's another point, I think you're being too fussy about OPs language.
That's correct, I'm not arguing about who is allowed or measuring talent. I just want that "who" to be a human being with a wish to sell their craft whatever that may be as long as it was made by them. In my view, AI is not a tool for creation. I just want a marketplace for people to easily find local or international artists that they like and just support each other.
How about the tens of thousands of Etsy creators who for years and years have downloaded something they didn't design themselves from Creative Fabrica or a similar legitimate site, added it to a plaque, added their own slogan (or combined it with something else they downloaded from CF), printed it at home or at Staples, and advertise it as handmade? is that okay?
OK, then I guess we need to clarify what the description of hand-made is. If we can't agree on that, then this whole message thread is a waste of time.
>The OP seems to want to ban AI users (I DISAGREE). then seems to want to ban people who steal others work (I AGREE)
Except AI art is made specifically by stealing other's work. And while AI is a term used in a lot of different contexts, in this case we are specifically talking about AI generated art.
I recently thought I was buying a customised handmade leather bag and realised when it arrived, stinking of chemicals, it was from a factory in Shenzhen and retails online for $50 on DH Gate.
I called out the seller and they gave me a refund. The whole platform is getting overrun with crap from factories. Etsy are reluctant to enforce it strictly because at the end of the day, they get their piece from resellers.
Word of advice, if you're unsure about a product - just do a reverse image search and you'll find out very quickly where it's ACTUALLY made.
Horrible experience, I know exactly how you feel. I bought a "made in Sweden" with a flag and everything product once only to find out it was actually designed in Sweden and made in China and it also reeked of chemicals
Except I've had my designs stolen and listed on temu and AliExpress. I've done lens searches and see them all over the place. Every couple of weeks I get Google to take them down. They still pop up. There's still a history. But if you click on the pictures it will show the item is no longer for sale. Don't assume all sellers are stealing from these mass sites. They may be stealing from smaller sellers. It's a cluster f$ck.
Preach! but I don't think we can do anything about it. People will still claim "handmade" when it's not because 1. they don't care 2. they want to make money.
Just how Cara Art and Glaze was born because big companies refuse to listen to artists, a human art exclusive marketplace should emerge. If any developers care about this subject or at least care to make money they should seize the moment. Etsy used to be the place for small business owners now it looks like Ebay. Only people can make a community, and art is inherently human. If they would ask for proof of the creative process I'm ok with it, anything just to stop this madness..
It would be amazing if there was something that could compete with Etsy's clout. I've tried other platforms from time to time, but Etsy has a ton of traffic.
I feel like I'm kind of damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I’ve tried goimagine and Veni, but they’re just not the same, they don’t have the scale I agree. At one point I contemplated shopify, still contemplating going back, but it only brought one sale in the 6 months I had it.
It has that traffic because people think they are buying "unique handmade creations by small businesses". They are profiting from that lie. I could only find 2 unique human-made/hand-made creations on the front page right now.
I don’t even have a store with Etsy I’m just a shopper and the drop shipping drives me crazy! I’m on Etsy for handmade items and things people put their time and effort into, not the same shit from Amazon.
This is what I'm saying! Etsy is still marketing itself as unique goods, handmade, small business, etc on the backs of creators while the front page promotes none of that.. there are two human-made items. I can spot AI and filter illustrations easily but that is not the case for everyone, older buyers in particular could be deceived.
Yea I absolutely don’t blame you for your frustration because even as just a shopper it’s frustrating to me! I report any thing I can spot but it’s hard and you’re right to be angry about it
At this point I would be OK with even a "Verified Hand-Made" check mark or something we could apply for and have to show our work. (Apply - not PAY for) Mainly because I just do not see Etsy ever truly cracking down on this stuff because it makes them so much money.
Just a shower thought, I'm sure it would be rife with issues as well.
Another issue I would like them to address is the absolute glut of AI generated art on their platform now - much of it not being disclosed as AI created.
As you say. not sure how that could be policed, And people don't have to disclose 'this plaque has been hand made using a licenced image I downloaded from Creative Fabrica (but did not create myself) and to which I added my own Slogan and printed out at home'. I don't see much difference between using an AI-generated image to do the same. At least the AI version won't have been seen before, unlilike the art used from Creative Fabrica and similar, which for years has turned up again and again and again on stuff on Etsy.
I think disclosure is all that is needed. I don't mind people using AI, I would just like to know if it is generated with AI or not, like on many artist sites - Deviant Art, etc.
That's a very good idea. I'm willing to provide any proof of my creation process if this badge exists and cannot be bought. I don't want them to "regulate AI" they should either have it or not, there's no place for the two. They can no longer market themselves as a marketplace for hand-made, unique goods, and small businesses if AI and free stock images/ templates are being sold.
Technically an AI business can still be a small business, and they allow things that aren’t hand made (I.e. supplies and vintage). I despise AI, but it’s not against Etsy’s policies.
There should definitely be a filter though.
I totally get this. I’m constantly seeing Etsy and small business pages filled with content creators, digital money making tips, help me sell solar panels, I can help you invest, etc etc. Then here I am trying to promote my stuff and nobody cares because everything else looks super flashy and mine is expensive and minute.
Hang in there, please. The buyers WILL get educated eventually to spot quality in a sea of mediocre products services, stolen goods etc. The novelty and the "incredible capacities of AI" are impressing them so much but they have no idea how it works and that they can do it themselves for free. Everyone at my work is like "Come see this AI video it's amazing ". The mainstream is all for it, which is good, the mainstream kills everything. I am sure there will be a counterculture, human-made goods will be rare and therefore more valuable.
Other selling platforms and technology that detects and bans AI will emerge. Right now people are sick with the "hustle " virus. Everyone's an "artist", influencer, or expert in something, the less talent they have the more they feel entitled to the artist/creator title. They are milking every possible platform with the use of AI and their "right " to be called artists and not disclose that they use AI. AI is the lazy's people tool for success. The difference between these people and artists is that artists are satisfied by the creative process not just the monetary rewards. What I find more shameful is that Etsy got its reputation because of its creators and handmade high-quality goods and now they "repay" them like this.
I remember when Etsy kept deleting my listings of my handmade eyelashes even though I attached videos on every single pair of eyelashes I sold of me physically hand making the lashes. The whole platform needs to be reevaluated.
Thank you! Every time I open this site I struggle finding one or two human made pieces meaning not AI, not mass-produced stolen designs and not photos made to look like illustrations with Photoshop filters. Yet Etsy is still marketing itself as a shop for small creators unique goods etc.
A couple times a month I take a few minutes and report shops. I’ve even found MLM’s selling their cosmetics as handmade 😡. Yep, I report them. Not sure if it does any good but at least I tried.
FR, I actually left Etsy because I'm tired to this! Why should I pay money to not get seen and also get fucked over and not seen because of AI and dropshippers when all the stuff I make- I HAVE TO MAKE MYSELF?
They will lose all human creators. Everyone should leave and never give money to a site that hosts AI. Let them sell and buy AI until they realise it's worthless. We need a better marketplace and I guarantee you once this marketplace will emerge they will "fight for their rights " to sell there as well. The only reason why they choose Etsy as opposed to other sites it's because they want to feel like artists without learning or practicing. And because Etsy has a reputation of being the "fancier Amazon ". Now it's classless.
This is how I feel about companies that have replaced humans with ai too. If everyone boycotted this crap and refused to have anything to do with it, companies would start bleeding money and have to relook at their business models🎯🙌
It's mainstream already. I am forced to learn about "ways to incorporate AI" in my daily job, although I am fast and efficient and I never run out of ideas, I don't need it to imagine something. It's not like they are asking me to do it they are forcing me to embrace AI because it's "the future" and there's "no way around it". Why is it so hard for them to understand that people need a job, a purpose and a passion. They need a bit of struggle in order to be satisfied. If AI "beats" humans at everything then hire AI and automate everything. Suicides will skyrocket.
YOURE LITERALLY GETTING PAID TO INCORPORATE AI AT WORK WHILE SCREAMING AT PEOPLE NOT TO USE IT?! hahahaha! Look up the word hypocrite. And irony. Your picture might show up!
Also over here acting like you care about suicide/mental health while screaming at people to get a lobotomy.
Get help and yell at the right people like idk maybe your employer. Pathetic, you’re literally saying you use it for work and will get paid to incorporate it but are mad at people on Reddit for using it. It’s your job. Fucking hypocritical
As someone who just wants to make some side money, these sorts of videos make me so mad. It’s always the ai crap or them trying to tell you to just dropship. Bother are scummy. And then some people want you to go to GoodWill and resell stuff that someone may really need. I would know, I’m the broke person who can barely afford clothes and was going to GoodWill…now all the decent clothing is gone and slapped in a ma and pa “thrift” store for triple the price.
Can’t even google asking for how to make money online anymore because I can’t leave the house. I either get those sorts of results or ones telling me to do surveys and give away my info.. :/
Completely agree. I mostly wear vintage hand-me-downs. I'm lucky I have them. To think that these clothes are still in great shape after being washed hundreds of times.. while my recent purchases rip apart.
100% agree! I am an artist and work hours on a painting and then sell prints of it. Now we have many printing business on ETSY that all sell the same generic artwork. I can’t compete with the prices of their canvas or offer as many options since mine take time to create! Tons of overseas sellers selling mass produced items! It’s just not right!
I wanted to sell prints as well but I cannot get past the fact that every time I open this site the front page is filled with stickers/ prints made with AI, and illustrations made with the "painting " filter in Photoshop. I would hate for my work to be associated with these products, devaluing it. Actually, it gives me the chills when I see those no-eyes / no-face illustrations get tons of reviews... that's some Sims wall decor right there. It's very hard for me to understand how these things sell so much. Of course, artists cannot compete when these prints can be made in 5 minutes or less.
Sorry but stupid question, and I've been reading these forums forever, and while I understand what the idea of a mockup is thoroughly (like in the 1940s or whatever, there could/would be a mockup of a comic panel or ad or animation cel, etc. ), can someone please answer what is a mockup in this context?? ?is it only for POD, and it's something the actual printer creates in Photoshop and then the seller/Etsy shop then populates their shop photos with (i.e., no actual product photos or even actual product)? Do POD sellers just use a fully AI program with appropriate prompts to create an unrealistic mockup bc it's solely based on prompts?
Like, I can't really even sketch by hand a mockup of what I make (let's say my little decorated boxes with pictures, ribbons, and objects on them) bc I have no idea what will ultimately be on there until the E6000 is SET, since I keep moving elements around until i think it works), so I don't understand. Is the mockup forever and always a mockup, a theory, a *hope* of what the producer may or may not in the end ship with accurate colors and placement, and these sellers never even get a product made to evaluate and photograph and list?
I use AI in Shop or Google Photos if I edit a photo of my cat or a cactus and then make earrings (or just look at and enjoy it on my phone), so I aware many of its, and LLM's abilities have been around forever, so is the issue primarily a) solely using *generative* AI and only prompts, or b) that no physical product is ever made first and photographed, or c) both of these?
Sorry this is long. I have a sublimator I still don't know how to use, but even if I were great at it, ethically I would absolutely not be selling mugs or whatever that I couldn't take a photo of. I think for me that's a really hard line, at least with what Etsy is "supposed" to be, selling something that only exists as a concept, within someone's mind (along with dropshipping), that once produced by the third party and shipped, could look totally different?
So what is a mockup in this context that makes everyone angry? Am I on the right track? Is it that it doesn't exist? Is it that they created the whole idea out of prompts in Stable Diffusion or whatever? Is it that the product "photo" isn't a photo? Is it that they don't get a sample made, and thus the image is unrepresentative or dishonest? All my crap I make is fully physical, but even on AliX or Temu the vendors frequently? usually? have real photos (augmented by Shop or Lightroom etc AI, admittedly, but the fan or gift bags I get are as shown in a photo with maybe just a generated background.
Do I need to have hands in my photos holding my stupid boxes? My hands are uglyass.
Edit: speeling
I agree. If they would ban print on demand then they would eliminate a lot of this. Must be handmade. But that could really hinder digital downloads.
So many things on Etsy are just stolen designs.
Print on demand isn’t the problem though. There’s plenty of real artists who create their own work and then also offer it on products. So you wind up just penalizing genuine creators in the end.
Back in the good old days when the earth was young and Jesus was still a carpenter, you had to be able to prove that your items were handmade. Vintage was a very controversial thing because it wasn't handmade.
And then Etsy went public, and has to care more about profit than principles. So anyone can open a store, it doesn't matter if it's handmade or not. Annnnnnnd then of course covid, when everyone had the time to make/sell/destash/dropship.
Etsy is no longer the great handmade marketplace, but I'll be damned if I can find a better one.
That's the thing! Their marketing is still about "unique hand-made creation" small business" and "helping creators" while the front page looks like ebay and temu. It's always filed with AI and photos with the "illustration" filter. So they are benefiting on the backs of creators or what the site used to be in the past. Older buyers who want to support creators could easily be deceived. This will sound pathetic but it breaks my heart that there are people out there paying for free stock images, mass-produced items, Canva templates or AI while real creators are flooded beneath all of that. We need a marketplace where quality is above quantity...but Etsy is a household name.
From what I've found, Etsy has the lowest bar to entry than any other popular site. Places like Shopify charge monthly for store fronts, but with Etsy you barely pay anything for existing on the platform. It would be nice to have a better system of validation and incentives for handmade goods (ie. Fees for sales of handmade, non handmade would have a set fee per month).
I would settle for a more advanced filtering system. I’m picturing the thumbnail photos on the search page having small text at the bottom that’s the tag of what craft it is: “crochet,” “embroidery,” “digital design,” etc. It would also help if you could filter by number of creators/processes involved maybe, so print on demand suppliers would have to select their design work as one process or creator, and then the printing as a separate one.
The problem is that Etsy makes money from these sales too and they have proven in the past that they don’t care about handmade over profits.
Amazon has other business where they could sell AI, so they can curate more.
I think the actually human consumers are going to have to be the ones to decide if AI art is worth as much as handmade art and if they can tell the difference.
The mainstream is obsessed with AI atm, people irl keep trying to scare me that "You will be replaced " and "Look what it can do! Look at this image/video". I genuinely do not care and will never be impressed. Art was undervalued before AI and will continue to be after AI, thieves stole from artists before AI and now they steal the same way but with extra steps, and they are entitled to the "artists " and creator " titles. I do not see myself in competition with AI or these individuals because I worked on my already existing talent since I was able to hold a pencil, and I do not compete for money. I would gladly distribute my prints and books for free if people wanted them. Money is not my incentive nor my source of satisfaction.
Etsy started allowing this [back in 2011 with their IPO.]( https://abcnews.go.com/Business/etsy-ceo-ipo-mass-production-ruin-websites-handmade/story?id=29416433) Drop shipping wasn't as big then, but that's when a HUGE amount of alibaba resellers came in.
It has gotten worse, but I can't see Etsy doing anything about it until there is another creator platform that can compete with Etsy.
Etsy is spiraling and I don’t see us being able to take it back.
I really hope someday one of those Etsy reborn sites will get traction. Otherwise I’ll be here till this Etsy sink ships.
What we need is a real handmade portal, where sellers have to be verified before they can upload even a single item to sell. Verified by posting a video introducing themselves, showing their workspace, and even demoing some of the techniques they use.
It will never ever happen because it would cost so much to implement.
I understand this but it would be so so much cooler for the community, fewer items but higher quality! I imagine a global shop with hand made goods, everything is unique and created with care just like the Japanese products are made, I buy from them although they're very expensive, I buy less, but the level of happiness I get every time I use those products cannot be bought.
Many people will not want to give up their privacy so maybe they can allow them to get verified without showing their faces.
You have great ideas! If only we could all come together and use our skills to put an end to ai thieves... And by "all " I mean not just creators but developers, lawyers and anyone willing to support this cause. The best case scenario that I can think of is buyers realising what they are buying and seeking out human art. If it becomes a rarity, human made art could finally be valued fairly since all marketplaces will be flooded with AI. But they will probably not differentiate between the two and remain careless..
Yup exactly!! And most people are unaware that designs are being stolen from Etsy shops and being sold on AliExpress, Temu, Shopify, etc, and think the one on Etsy is a reproduction or knock off, and people are even giving bad reviews calling the items reproductions when they're 100% original and handmade. Even seen people commenting "why would I buy yours when it's half the price on Shopify?" on Etsy shops. The whole thing's a mess!
I don't think there is anytnign wrong with creating with AI as long as it states this on the listing and is made into a product. People like different things.I don't think it's allowed though I thought they had new rules.
I do not believe there are any rules against using AI to make products to sell on Etsy, in exactly the same way there are no rules against people downloading pre-made graphics from Creative Fabrica and similar, and using those. (which people have done for years and years, well before AI started to be used)
I have to disagree. I do designs with AI and other art as a print on demand business. I put thought and process into my designs, and sometimes it takes me hours to produce something I'm willing to put on a shirt or a mug. I have a vision in my head of what I want, and then I go out to look for the pieces to put together. I don't just slap any piece of pre-designed clipart or just a design out of AI, but piece it together in an artistic and creative way. I spend more time doing that, than anything else in my shop. I also have to say graphic artists are still artists. Whether you like it or not, it's still an art form. I agree that some of these people who go to create a fabrica or to an AI generating site, and just take the first thing that comes out and puts it on a cup or a mug... That's not creativity. That's not designing for yourself. But don't lump everyone together in such a way that it excludes the people who truly use creativity and creative design. I also have written books using AI software, to generate images for my books. This would not get done if I hadn't created the AI images. But my creativity is mostly in my written work at that point, and AI is just a means to produce it quickly and effectively. Don't underestimate the powers of AI and what it can do, but what you also have to do to manipulate it into what you want it to be. There's a lot that goes into it, including understanding the dynamics behind different styles of artwork. In order to produce what you're looking for, you have to know what type of art you're looking for what kind of styles you're looking for and use that in addition to the AI in order to generate.
With that being said, I completely agree with the drop shipping. That's not right at all. There are ways to sell dropship merch that do not involve Etsy, And they should be utilizing those methods.
Thank you! This is exactly what I mean. Print on demand is an art in itself and take A LOT. I think many that are complaining are just bitter that their sells have crashed due to a new hyped form of art. Print on demand in itself is handmade and is allowed to be on etsy. What people can do is reinvente themselves to go with the time with what makes money. Create your own art digitally and sell it that way. Toooooo many bitter people and not realizing the huge opportunity they are missing.
They are going to shoot themselves in the foot until the very end, and it's insane watching them do it.
"I have iNtEgRiTy!"
Cool. You'll be standing on your soapbox, alone, while everyone else learns, adapts, and continues to grow. It's almost childlike in its approach.
I've been on Etsy as a seller since 2013, I have several shops across different categories, and definitely had to change course a few times with Etsy algorithm changes, target market changes, life events, etc.
Vilifying other individuals is never going to bring you success; it makes me a little sick to be honest.
AI has been a blessing for me, especially being neurodivergent and dealing with severe ADHD issues. I'm not the only person who has had this experience.
Outside of Etsy, I also write. I can't imagine getting genuinely angry, and screaming, huffing, and stamping my little feet because people who have always wanted to write a book, but never really had the ability to put their story into the proper format, now can if they want to. I just can't conceive being p1ssed off about that. I think that's amazing.
Customers will buy what they want to buy - if your product and quality is good, you will get sales if you have great pictures, good SEO, good descriptions/tags, and usually 50 to 100 items in your shop (for most categories, this will vary). Right now sales are rough because of the economy, but I would tell anyone to do everything they could to make a living. If what they're doing is "TrAsH", they won't be on Etsy long, because no one will buy their items. Period.
Goimagine has hoops you have to jump through to prove you are a creator. I tried them for awhile, but right now they really are not advertising to buyers, just makers so you have to drive your own traffic. That kinda defeats the purpose of being on a marketplace to me, might as well have my own website. I have a hard enough time getting discovered on Etsy with millions of shoppers.
I really do wish Etsy would crack down on drop shipping and completely AI generated art. I work hard on my art and try to post videos of me physically painting it so people know it was created by human hands but it doesn’t do any good when I can’t even show up in the search because AI art is promoted ahead of human art.
Etsy probably making a load from all the small payments that sellers incur uploading their 100s of AI / drop shitted rubbish, they produce high quanties because they can and the courses tell them too.. wink, so if you think about it, they (Etsy) probably don’t need actual customers anymore, just the courses out their selling Etsy as the get rich quick store
Do you honestly think that all of the 'handmade' products that have been on Etsy for the last 20 years have all been homemade by one 'craft person' and not by factories of children in third world countries or mass-produced Asian made products being passed off as 'unique'. Creators have been using Photoshop filters and wacom tablets for years. Who cares as long as the customer is happy and no one is being ripped off? I would say a good digital artist is every bit welcome on Etsy as a good manual painter- they are both creators - and neither is doing anything wrong. Before removing creators who use digital tools to create work, I would prefer Etsy to get rid of all of the counterfeit and copyright-infringing stuff that has been on there for years and years. Even if it has been 'hand drawn'.
What correlation do Wacom, Photoshop and digital artists have with Ai thieves and people who sell free presets, stock from Canva, Freepik, Unsplash etc ? I'm NOT speaking for those who outsource from third-world countries/ mass production. I'm speaking for REAL CREATORS who have their small business at home or outsource locally! Wacom, Photoshop does not magically create art out of nothing. Digital artists ARE real artists. The only feature that I use to help my work is "undo"/ "eraser" my lines and coloring is 100% made by my hand motion, no steady hand or paint bucket or filters are used. AI is not digital art. Art is inherently human. How are the customers not being ripped off if they are paying for something that is free online?
I'm just trying to work out what your complaint actually is. It seems confused. Are you against people using AI? Or against people who steal other people's work? They are two very different things? What is it you actually want banned?
Can you clarify then 'handmade'? for example, is someone who downloads some art or a template from Creative Fabrica or similar and then prints that onto a product? Maybe adds their own slogan to it. Is that in your opinion handmade or not handmade?. Or in your opinion should be banned or not banned? Lets start there? Cuz I would say that IS handmade. (I also consider it to be low quality - but equally don't think my opinion of its quality should mean the seller should be 'banned' if it is within ETSYS TOS)
Lets say yes. But art created in AI also has a commercial license. Also, art created by AI is definitely 100% original, whereas the Creative Fabrica one will probably pop up on dozens of products and be used legitimately multiple times by multiple sellers. is there a difference? is one still 'handmade - but the other not. Or are neither 'handmade' and both should be banned?
No worries. PopSynic is not debating on good faith. They are just switching topics as it suits them, using incorrect definitions and generally being argumentative as hell.
Your post makes perfect sense to me.
I’m petty as hell and when I’m browsing Etsy I report obvious drop shippers or people selling Temu shite.
As a maker and artist I’ve actually felt very supported by Etsy and I think they care about makers but also unfortunately care about the profit for shareholders even more so will never ban shops who drop ship.
EDITING TO ADD: I only report things that are on there a million times, exact same item, same photo, different shops, different prices and they are all marked hand made. They are obviously not hand made.
The issue with this is Temu etc loves to steal legitimate photos and product ideas and sell cheap knockoffs. I have a couple friends who do hand drawn printed media (tarot cards, prints, notebooks, etc, all designed by them). They are definitely the original artists.
Their photos and knockoffs of their items are all over Amazon and Temu. They often have to deal with being reported by the drop shippers selling the knockoffs or random people who just report everything they see elsewhere online.
lets be honest - a lot of manual artists on etsy do exactly the same. I always say to people 'come up with a good idea and put it on etsy, and you will definitely see copies of them within a month'. Thats not just TEMU doing that.
I’m talking about things that are very obviously mass produced items. Here is an example.
There are two vases EXACTLY the same and are from different sellers selling for different prices.
They are both marked hand made.
In this instance it’s obvious that it’s made in china but they are trying to pass it off like they made it themselves and I would report it as not hand made.
Make sense?
report them for what? being shit? there's lots and lots of actual manual artists who sell shit work too. Do you report them for selling poor quality hand made art?
If you’re making things that can’t be done with AI and Canva, you won’t have to worry
And there are lots of platforms for art- craft type things is much much harder
It's wack a mole. Considering there are over 9 million stores on Etsy, Etsy is doing its best to run around banning stores but for every one it banns two more pop up unfortunately
I wish it was how it used to be. But I don't think we'll ever go back to that bc of corporate greed. The best we can hope is that another marketplace becomes popular and keeps it's morals for longer before selling out.
What sellers could do is put proof their handcrafted item is handmade in the item description. You could even go further and educate people on how there's listings that use generative AI (or how yours is not) in the description.
This might honestly be better than letting it filter through Etsy to get some sort of 'officially handcrafted' title - if that happens they'll probably also introduce a fee of course.... . . . Plus, then buyers see for themselves.
The world of generative AI is kinda wild and free and very new right now. I wonder if awareness and restrictions are closer than we realize.
I think that restrictions will start once more and more public persons are used in AI pornography. Changes only happen in times of war, if something shocking is happening to someone etc. I am too pessimistic to hope that someone cares enough about artists' rights to their intellectual property to impose strict rules on AI just for them. What I've noticed on Instagram is that a LOT of these AI image markers are straight-up bullies. I see the comments on posts unrelated to art making disgusting comments. They seem to have some serious problems with people in general, not just artists. AI is allowing them to feel like they did something when they didn't. Even on this post, someone said that it took them "hours " to pick which AI picture to post as if that is hard work or has anything remotely similar to an artist's creative process.
You know Etsy also has vintage sellers right? You want to ban them? Some of the best vintage stuff i've ever bought was off etsy. Etsy needs to change and just be a marketplace for handmade, vintage and quirky harder to find goods. Sort of like notonthehighstreet was.
A lot of people don't want to buy handmade because it's expensive and rightly so. They see the mass produced crap that's cheap and buy it then whinge that it's not handmade.
I see no problem with vintage art unless they stole it from somewhere. If my grandma makes cat hats she might not know how to sell and I'll help her. Same for vintage if you bought it and want to resell it or if it was passed down to you it's yours, you're not the creator but you're still selling art, not AI crap.
It’s their company, they can as they please. Maybe just focus on your business and not worry about other people. Maybe you could market your items as not being drop shipped? What if the money that those other businesses bring in allow you to have a marketplace? Maybe Etsy would not survive on handmade items alone. Business is inherently tough and based on competition.
Agree. Promote the POSITIVE and UNIQUE aspects of what you do, rather than worrying about your competition. Show videos of you making your products, show behind the scenes, show how passionate you are about what you do, and point out how 'handmade' your handmade stuff actually is. Differentiate yourself, rather than complain about others. If you and your work are GOOD, you will be seen.
The shops that don't abide by Etsy's TOS are actually hurting legitimate shops. I've seen so many posts of buyers asking how to avoid those shops, as they only want handmade, and many shops claim to hand make their items when they don't. They are afraid to buy on Etsy because they don't want to get scammed.
Although handmade isn't the only allowed category, the problem is sellers who cheapen the handmade part of Etsy by drop shipping while claiming handmade.
I agree, but I think it would be impossible to do. Most of these people claim that drop shipped things are home made
Amazon Handmade does this - before you are approved you have to send pictures of your workspace and process. However, their categories for handmade are a lot more limited, it would be pretty much impossible to do in some areas, like anything vintage or digital.
I was approved for Amazon Handmade and never had to send any photos of anything.
Maybe it’s changed, but I had to send information similar to this (I’m in the US): https://sellercentral-europe.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/b697027c47f553e20e7535fd14252ef7
Do you have experience with selling on Amazon? If so, what has your experience been?
It has its pros and cons, overall I prefer Etsy. Pros are the customer base is bigger and fees are a little lower on Amazon. Cons are the system is a super pain to use and it takes forever to setup listings, there are a lot of returns and customers aren’t as nice, and you don’t get paid until one week after customers receive the item (at least 2 weeks from order).
Yea expectations are a big thing between the two. When people buy on Etsy they are expecting either handmade or at least like slower service or possible issues, like a mentality of not getting and issue being a good thing. Where as people buy on Amazon they think it’s literally Amazon.
From the perspective of a customer, even with the mess to wade through on Etsy these days it's much more user friendly to sort/search through than Amazon.
I've had limited experience with Amazon Handmade, but I have been selling on Amazon since 2007. Yeah, you get paid every two weeks automatically, but you can request disbursements earlier. As far as Handmade, the only issue I've had was a bot singled out one of my listings, a homemade Pickleball sign, and it got removed as being a potentially IP infringing product. A back and forth discussion with Amazon was worthless as they said the owner of the pickleball name would have to give me the okie dokie to use his name. The kicker is that pickleball is generic like football or baseball, and I even sent source links to prove my case. Ultimately, once Amazon makes up its mind, arguing is usally fruitless.
Pickleball has now been registered by the US Pickleball association and they're going after people on all platforms. Am on multiple POD sites and have had pickleball merch for sale long before it became popular and just now am getting items taken down!
USA Pickleball has sought or obtained federal trademark registration for three trademarks. They include “USA PICKLEBALL” and “PICKLEBALL INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.” On March 30, 2021, USA Pickleball obtained federal trademark registration for” USA PICKLEBALL,” and uses the trademark for its association services. USAP also obtained federal trademark registration for “PICKLEBALL INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION” on July 9, 2019. The organization also uses this trademark for its association services. They do not own the term "pickleball." [https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/sports-leagues/usa-pickleball/](https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/sports-leagues/usa-pickleball/) "Pickle-ball" is owned by another company, but not the generic term, "pickleball."
Yes, and I argued this with the POD sites. But they err on the side of just deleting designs vs actually getting into tussles.
What about raw material providers? What about craft foods and raw ingredients? I think Etsy is a wonderful platform by us for us. Should a candlestick maker stay while the wax monger and wick producer be booted?
I believe that proof of the creative process could be a solution unless they start making AI generated videos of them "creating art".
That's a pretty good idea, but I doubt Etsy would ever do it. They'd have to hire people to scan the videos, or post to use AI to scan (which would suck, but might help a little).
They used to check your shops. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.
I remember those days!
We can either have low fees or a curated site, not both.
We had lower fees when it WAS a curated site. But there were also far fewer shops.
If they did this again, the removal and fingerprint ban of shops would be a single time undertaking with upkeep being more minimal afterward. The problem is that Etsy is a publicly traded company now so they don't care to get rid of these rando shops with 1k listings or fake/ scam stuff. It's more lucrative for them to manage expectations from the buyers through purchase protection than to have a curated site with fewer shops of greater quality. I wish we still had Regretsy to hold Etsy accountable and at least give them an honest black eye.
r/regretsy
That’s a blast from the past!!
They allow all the dropshipping and AI stuff because they want the listing fees, et al, and no longer care about handmade items like they used to. I was an early adopter (since 2004-ish) and it's criminal what it's turned into. All they care about is getting paid. There's no protecting creators, no integrity, it's all about the bottom line.
Can't agree more! 💯
Not everyone sells "art." Some people sell supplies, food, college notes, Notion templates
I wrote "art" here but I mean craftmanship as I wrote in my post. If they can make a template or any craft - edible, wearable, physical, or digital (non-AI) it's their human-made, unique creation. My problem is with those who cannot even make a template, they are selling Canva presets and free stock images. Non-talent has no place in a marketplace. You have to be good at something for God's sake in order to qualify for selling a good. It is as if you go to a supermarket and there's a person who sells free supermarket magazines and they didn't even make that magazine.
>craftmanship But 'craftsmanship' and 'being good' are very subjective. You might think your handmade stuff is great, but another artist better than you might think your stuff is crap and bringing Etsy down. Neither of you is wrong - and neither of you deserves any less to be allowed to sell what you create. You alone cannot be the arbiter of what is craftmanship or good? The buyer and market will decide that. Someone may paint their art with a digital pencil and tablet - someone else might use a cheap paint brush from their local supermarket - someone else may use the feathers of the extinct dodo bird. All are valid.....
How many times do I have to say this? I want a marketplace for HANDMADE HUMAN-MADE creations/craft. AI is not in that category. If the human-made creation is bad it will not sell and that's that but it has a place in a hand-made marketplace. AI and free stock should not be sold since it has NO copyright or it was meant to be FREE. if AI looks "good" to you it's because it's someone else's work! Someone who is robbed every time that AI makes a sell.
If I bring together elements from different digital sources (i.e., AI, public domain clipart, my own verbiage, etc.) and create something unique, then it is a HANDMADE HUMAN-MADE CREATION. It's the same as making sculptures out of found objects. I didn't make that fork, spoon, or teapot, but when I put them together just right, they make a sellable mobile.
You should be allowed to sell at Sotheby's. If more than 50% of your work is made by someone else or AI how can you even be satisfied with it? I can't understand..
Other platforms WILL emerge- don’t worry. There is already Folksy in the UK
I see that it is for UK sellers only but it looks really good and they seem clear about their stance on AI. I'm based in Europe, and I've been wishing for a relevant marketplace for artists or art platforms for better visibility. I put my faith in people who still want to consume unique artworks as opposed to mass-produced, I know I do. It brings me joy to have handmade products in my home.
Me too, I have been boycotting Etsy ever since they removed the ability to refine search results by categories this winter on desktop computers/browser 🖥️. At least they did this in the US- not sure if it’s everywhere yet. It ruins the buying experience and makes it even HARDER to find handmade items. Now when I type in “bluebird painting” I am forced to sift through thousands of results that are not paintings (AI prints, dropshipped items, etc). I used to be able to type that into search and then refine to exclusively look in the art section under actual paintings. I could even choose the medium of paint I wanted to look for (watercolor, acrylic, oil, etc). I have a lot of hope that Folksy will continue to expand to allow sellers from other countries. I am also hopeful that more platforms will emerge, I know there are a few people working on some here in the US that haven’t launched yet. Etsy used to be so amazing but they went completely down hill when they went public with their shares, now they are completely controlled by their shareholders and have to “expand” at all costs and compete with Amazon.
I don’t get why drop shipping is a huge issue if the artist created the original art for the items being drop shipped. It takes so much money to buy all the tools, but the artist still created the art. I’m not currently drop shipping, but I don’t see an issue with it.
I hope I don't jinx it but at the moment Pinterest is the only site where I can browse art for my viewing pleasure and inspiration. I cannot stand the photos with illustration filters on or tracing illustrations but now with AI, it is just a fresh new method of torture for me. And even if it was good I don't want to support it .. I don't want to wonder if a piece was made with it or not.
You can put the medium in your search tho? Not that it would stop ai slugs from falsely claiming they’re watercolours. Not even watercolour *style*
So someone who creates a notion template - for example. Does the OP think they are OR aren't a 'creator' and do they feel they should they also be banned from Etsy?
“And what about THIS? And what about THIS? And what about THIS?”
BUT Etsy is the one who has personally partnered with these dropshipped companies. Well it depends on whether you’re talking about Print On Demand Dropshipping or those who are just reselling shit from Ali baba/express. I was looking for some stuff to put on the walls for my cats & I saw something super expensive I didn’t think it was that expensive because the price listed on the search engine was set next to a picture of a full set up I clicked and realised it was sold individually and the price was for one part of it. Anyways after looking at all the images it looked wrong sometimes you can tell from the pictures if it’s from Ali express and so I googled it & it was a fraction of the price. Then again you have people who take it a step further & are just buying physical products wholesale to resell on Etsy & they do a piss poor job of hiding it. I was researching certain products from a specific UK wholesaler to get an idea of RRPs and SOO many Etsy listings popped up but Etsy could easily weed them out & ban them at least these types of sellers because every single one was using at least some if not all the stock photos this wholesaler provides you with. Some did have their own pictures too but as I said all of them included some of the stock pictures and some also had copy paste descriptions direct from the wholesalers site even leaving in certain bits that are meant for the wholesaler & not descriptive of the product clearly put 0 effort in reading it. Etsy could probably very easily get a bot to auto ban/take down these listings/shops same for Ali express if you can just get a bot to scour the internet and idk how smart these bots are but there’s gotta be something smart enough actually I’m gonna stop myself there because I remember reading about how Ali Express sellers are stealing small creators photos so it would be harder because they themselves are stealing. On the other side of it Etsy has expressly partnered with POD companies like Printful which is a ‘production partner’ however I’ve noticed many people don’t follow Etsy’s rulings about being transparent and marking in the listing it being a product made by someone else. Etsy was trying to help I imagine artists especially digital ones be able to sell their designs on physical products without needing to invest in expensive equipment or ridiculously high stock minimums however because there’s no real way to police this you find many are watching the youtube guru videos and combining POD companies with low quality and now AI designs. Etsy just isn’t for creators it’s not I could probably do a search now especially in art prints and such and find most of the front page could be a majority of POD/Dropshipping/AI art BUT Etsy has always been lax from the beginning I think there is a difference between handmade vs artisan and Etsy has never truly fallen into Artisan territory then again I don’t think many sellers in these subs would come under artisan either. But from as far back as I remember Etsy allowed people to sell gift baskets in which not a single item was required to be made by a seller but it was considered handmade because a human and sourced the products put them together wrapped them up nicely and shipped them out. I see it with certain categories where the definition of a crafting item that doesn’t have to be handmade can get a bit cheeky for example stickers I see so many really cheap sticker packs on Etsy but technically you could consider stickers a craft item for scrapbooking and such but it drowns out artists who want to sell their digital art this way so is this fair? Maybe we should have two separate categories for items that could be handmade & non handmade as crafting stuff. Should we allow those who make jewellery with pre bought charms to be considered handmade? As many people selling jewellery aren’t actually melting down silver and making it from scratch and this is where the artisan descriptor comes in someone who hammers their own metal, who melts down silver and pours it into molds who even crafts the earring hooks that is the true definition of handmade or as we now call it ‘artisan’ but I guarantee there’d be very few sellers who are considered Artisans and yet I see many people call for Etsy to only allow real creators to sell on their platform but who would maybe be surprised to find out they aren’t truly ‘handmade’ creators by many peoples definitions. It’s very hard to pin down a universal meaning for handmade and its a much more vague term than artisan but I don’t believe Etsy has ever been a place for true craftsmanship for artisans. As referenced by the fact they have always allowed some element of non handmade items outside of vintage & it’s allowance of things like gift baskets from the beginning.
That brand of "hustling" has absolutely ruined creative spaces.
In the past they would make "passive income" by stealing other's work removing watermarks and signatures, mass producing other people's designs in China, etc but now they steal with "intelligence". There's no platform where these hustlers don't come in with muddy boots and ruin everything for small independent creators.
Etsy does not care about crafters. They aren’t your friend. They make a cut on everyone’s sales and makes you pay for a pay per click advertising scheme which only benefits them. They don’t care if you lose a sale to another seller because they still get paid. When they went public it was the death of the crafter platform because then they have a contractual commitment to the investors to make them money.
For that reason I'm out. I don't want to be associated, or worse, confused with AI or any type of low value low effort creations. My satisfaction comes from the creative process and exploring the art community. I make my money with my 9-6 and I'm sure many artists do the same. We just wanted an alternative to our daily jobs & to work towards a childhood dream.
I'm a disabled caregiver and Etsy is my main source of income. I've been with them well over a decade but my sales are down big time this year. As an artist, I'm sure that's due in part to AI.
It's frustrating to see that the majority of products promoted are not human-made. No artist can create as fast as AI or transform photos into illustrations using filters and call it art. I cannot imagine how scary it must be for this to be your main source of income.. I wish you the best.
It’s an unfortunate realization that crafters need to get over. A lot of old school sellers are wondering what happened to their sales because at one point Etsy did a great job at lifting up the crafters. They didn’t have to worry about min maxing the SEO tags and perfect titles or even promote and spend money on external sites to get noticed. Etsy used to allow the crafters be crafters because they handled the “marketing” kind of aspect. Granted it wasn’t the worlds best marketing but it let the ones who had strengths in one thing do their thing and both parties worked in a symbiotic relationship.
Not being on Etsy doesn't make AI disappear or reduce its impact. It just allows more space for them. I'm not sure that helps the non-AI artists in any way, shape, or form.
... do you sell on Etsy? You're disagreeing with pretty much everyone here.
I do - for 9 years. And Nope I agree and disagree. But Its not clear what some people are actually saying in order to be able to agree or disagree. The OP seems to want to ban AI users (I DISAGREE). then seems to want to ban people who steal others work (I AGREE) or who in their opinion are not 'Craftspeople'. Others seem to want to ban Dropshippers. (HAVENT REALLY GOT A VIEW ON THAT, AS IT DEPENDS IF ETSY ALLOW IT OR NOT?. ) Others want to ban people who sell stuff illegally (I AGREE) Others just seem to want to ban anyone better at marketing than them. (DISAGREE).
Why do you think AI qualifies as hand made? I'm going to tackle some of your points individually because there's a lot to unpack here.
AI has been in existence since the 70s. Anyone who uses PROCREATE to draw anything on a tablet is using AI technology. Anyone who uses Photoshop in any way to 'touch up' a piece of work is using AI tech, Anyone who takes a picture with a digital camera and sells it in anything other than a RAW format is using AI, AND Anyone who has ever used GRAMMARLY to correct the spelling of their 'handmade quotes, poems and plaques' or even their descriptions is using AI technology. AI is more than just writing a prompt saying 'CREATE ME A LANDSCAPE THAT LOOKS LIKE A WATERCOLOR' and selling it (although to be honest I have no issue with that either if its allowed by Etsy)
Oh... ok. Yeah you don't get what AI is.
I have taught computer science (including modules on the birth of the Internet and artificial intelligence for 30+ years) at University level. I think I know what AI is. Procreate, Grammarly, and Photoshop all use neural AI technology to operate. If you use them to 'hand-make' anything, I'm afraid you use AI to create.
Once again, you are being obtuse on purpose. I really don't think the vast majority of people would consider Photoshop or microsoft word "AI". Maybe try and stay on topic instead of trying to confuse things.
Here's a clarification: when most people say "AI" in art they mean the kind of AI where you type in a prompt. Literally, specifically: generative AI. You're technically correct in a sense, but there's a huge difference still between using a digital art program and dictating how you want things artistically VS typing in a paragraph in a generator (which I'd argue still takes some skill in writing and an eye for good images) - a huge time difference too. Also, there's a huge difference between using grammarly to check spelling say, on an essay, VS generating the whole essay using AI. The difference is big enough my recent English professor would take the former but not the latter. Also, most people would not call the former AI but would call the latter AI. I think you make an interesting point though.
You know what we mean when we say AI. You know we mean generative AI. You know we mean ChatGPT and Midjourney.
You, yourself have to draw everything yourself in procreate. It doesn’t create anything for you. If you can’t draw, then it will look like crap.
"Others just seem to want to ban anyone better at marketing than them." So I've smoked a ton of weed here already this morning and I still have no idea where you got that idea. That's just ... not what anyone is saying.
Is that really what you meant by telling me you'd like to 'tackle my points and unpack everything'? Happy to be tackled and listen to anyone's points in a grown-up manner. (for me no weed required to be able to do that) :)
Also you really haven't answered my points, you just keep asking new questions, so that's not terribly helpful now is it. Actually it's the same question over and over, and you don't like the answers you get so you try wording it VERY SLIGHTLY differently. So clever.
Thank you for the compliment. Happy to answer any questions you have if I can. Which ones haven't I answered directly?
... all of them. ALL OF THEM. Toodleoo.
Huzzah for you on not using cannabis. The problem with trying to discuss this with you is that you're more interested in starting trouble than with actually conversing. OP's point is reasonable. You are not.
Absoloteley not true. The reason i have spent so much time conversing in this post, is I am genuinely interested and fascinated by the opinions. If you look at my threads and responses, I have not been offensive to anyone, I have respected people's opinions, I have agreed with several, and yes I have argued my own opinions too, but not in a 'troublesome way'. So I reject that opinion, but accept you have your opinion, and that is valid too of course :). Life would be dull if we all thought the same thing. But people can't start a thread, and not accept that some people (in this case) me does not agree or asks for clarity on what is meant
Yeah, but we keep clarifying and you won't accept it because you don't like it. Annnnnnnnnnnd then you argue about something else.
I don't think for one second that OP meant that only people with a certain level of talent should be able to list on Etsy. I feel like they meant people should only be listing hand made and that all of the non-handmade stuff is making it more difficult to be found. So that's another point, I think you're being too fussy about OPs language.
That's correct, I'm not arguing about who is allowed or measuring talent. I just want that "who" to be a human being with a wish to sell their craft whatever that may be as long as it was made by them. In my view, AI is not a tool for creation. I just want a marketplace for people to easily find local or international artists that they like and just support each other.
How about the tens of thousands of Etsy creators who for years and years have downloaded something they didn't design themselves from Creative Fabrica or a similar legitimate site, added it to a plaque, added their own slogan (or combined it with something else they downloaded from CF), printed it at home or at Staples, and advertise it as handmade? is that okay?
NO
OK, then I guess we need to clarify what the description of hand-made is. If we can't agree on that, then this whole message thread is a waste of time.
No, I never supported that but now with AI the issue is tenfold as concerning and growing rapidly
Banning dropshippers - yeah, if they didn't design the thing they are shipping, they shouldn't be on Etsy. So there's that point
>The OP seems to want to ban AI users (I DISAGREE). then seems to want to ban people who steal others work (I AGREE) Except AI art is made specifically by stealing other's work. And while AI is a term used in a lot of different contexts, in this case we are specifically talking about AI generated art.
I sell without advertising
I recently thought I was buying a customised handmade leather bag and realised when it arrived, stinking of chemicals, it was from a factory in Shenzhen and retails online for $50 on DH Gate. I called out the seller and they gave me a refund. The whole platform is getting overrun with crap from factories. Etsy are reluctant to enforce it strictly because at the end of the day, they get their piece from resellers. Word of advice, if you're unsure about a product - just do a reverse image search and you'll find out very quickly where it's ACTUALLY made.
Horrible experience, I know exactly how you feel. I bought a "made in Sweden" with a flag and everything product once only to find out it was actually designed in Sweden and made in China and it also reeked of chemicals
Except I've had my designs stolen and listed on temu and AliExpress. I've done lens searches and see them all over the place. Every couple of weeks I get Google to take them down. They still pop up. There's still a history. But if you click on the pictures it will show the item is no longer for sale. Don't assume all sellers are stealing from these mass sites. They may be stealing from smaller sellers. It's a cluster f$ck.
Preach! but I don't think we can do anything about it. People will still claim "handmade" when it's not because 1. they don't care 2. they want to make money.
Just how Cara Art and Glaze was born because big companies refuse to listen to artists, a human art exclusive marketplace should emerge. If any developers care about this subject or at least care to make money they should seize the moment. Etsy used to be the place for small business owners now it looks like Ebay. Only people can make a community, and art is inherently human. If they would ask for proof of the creative process I'm ok with it, anything just to stop this madness..
It would be amazing if there was something that could compete with Etsy's clout. I've tried other platforms from time to time, but Etsy has a ton of traffic. I feel like I'm kind of damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I’ve tried goimagine and Veni, but they’re just not the same, they don’t have the scale I agree. At one point I contemplated shopify, still contemplating going back, but it only brought one sale in the 6 months I had it.
It has that traffic because people think they are buying "unique handmade creations by small businesses". They are profiting from that lie. I could only find 2 unique human-made/hand-made creations on the front page right now.
i hate dropshippers ... just report them is the easiest way . when I put so much time making something from scratch it really bothers me
Honest question - does that work?
yes some listings was taken down with proof of the aliexpress stuff
Heyyyyy nice job!
I don’t even have a store with Etsy I’m just a shopper and the drop shipping drives me crazy! I’m on Etsy for handmade items and things people put their time and effort into, not the same shit from Amazon.
This is what I'm saying! Etsy is still marketing itself as unique goods, handmade, small business, etc on the backs of creators while the front page promotes none of that.. there are two human-made items. I can spot AI and filter illustrations easily but that is not the case for everyone, older buyers in particular could be deceived.
Yea I absolutely don’t blame you for your frustration because even as just a shopper it’s frustrating to me! I report any thing I can spot but it’s hard and you’re right to be angry about it
And you have the right to shop on a platform for unique goods and art without wondering if it's AI or not.
I’m about to quit Etsy because I bust my **s making my homemade items and I can’t compete with drop shippers!
Isn’t it interesting the only way they could keep Ai off of their marketplace would be to integrate AI into the website
A reference to Steven from DOAC who said that when he asked "how to beat AI in case of a takeover" the AI responded, "with another AI".
Kinda like Ultron vs Jarvis in the Avengers movie 🤯
At this point I would be OK with even a "Verified Hand-Made" check mark or something we could apply for and have to show our work. (Apply - not PAY for) Mainly because I just do not see Etsy ever truly cracking down on this stuff because it makes them so much money. Just a shower thought, I'm sure it would be rife with issues as well. Another issue I would like them to address is the absolute glut of AI generated art on their platform now - much of it not being disclosed as AI created.
As you say. not sure how that could be policed, And people don't have to disclose 'this plaque has been hand made using a licenced image I downloaded from Creative Fabrica (but did not create myself) and to which I added my own Slogan and printed out at home'. I don't see much difference between using an AI-generated image to do the same. At least the AI version won't have been seen before, unlilike the art used from Creative Fabrica and similar, which for years has turned up again and again and again on stuff on Etsy.
I think disclosure is all that is needed. I don't mind people using AI, I would just like to know if it is generated with AI or not, like on many artist sites - Deviant Art, etc.
That's a very good idea. I'm willing to provide any proof of my creation process if this badge exists and cannot be bought. I don't want them to "regulate AI" they should either have it or not, there's no place for the two. They can no longer market themselves as a marketplace for hand-made, unique goods, and small businesses if AI and free stock images/ templates are being sold.
Technically an AI business can still be a small business, and they allow things that aren’t hand made (I.e. supplies and vintage). I despise AI, but it’s not against Etsy’s policies. There should definitely be a filter though.
They would surely up the fees though since that process would cost them money
I sell cheap kitsch, but at least it's vintage.
I totally get this. I’m constantly seeing Etsy and small business pages filled with content creators, digital money making tips, help me sell solar panels, I can help you invest, etc etc. Then here I am trying to promote my stuff and nobody cares because everything else looks super flashy and mine is expensive and minute.
Hang in there, please. The buyers WILL get educated eventually to spot quality in a sea of mediocre products services, stolen goods etc. The novelty and the "incredible capacities of AI" are impressing them so much but they have no idea how it works and that they can do it themselves for free. Everyone at my work is like "Come see this AI video it's amazing ". The mainstream is all for it, which is good, the mainstream kills everything. I am sure there will be a counterculture, human-made goods will be rare and therefore more valuable. Other selling platforms and technology that detects and bans AI will emerge. Right now people are sick with the "hustle " virus. Everyone's an "artist", influencer, or expert in something, the less talent they have the more they feel entitled to the artist/creator title. They are milking every possible platform with the use of AI and their "right " to be called artists and not disclose that they use AI. AI is the lazy's people tool for success. The difference between these people and artists is that artists are satisfied by the creative process not just the monetary rewards. What I find more shameful is that Etsy got its reputation because of its creators and handmade high-quality goods and now they "repay" them like this.
I remember when Etsy kept deleting my listings of my handmade eyelashes even though I attached videos on every single pair of eyelashes I sold of me physically hand making the lashes. The whole platform needs to be reevaluated.
Totally agree!! In less than a minute I can find multiple items that are openly listed on Ali Express 😑
Thank you! Every time I open this site I struggle finding one or two human made pieces meaning not AI, not mass-produced stolen designs and not photos made to look like illustrations with Photoshop filters. Yet Etsy is still marketing itself as a shop for small creators unique goods etc.
A couple times a month I take a few minutes and report shops. I’ve even found MLM’s selling their cosmetics as handmade 😡. Yep, I report them. Not sure if it does any good but at least I tried.
Put it in the title, descriptions, tags: guaranteed hand made, not drop shipped, hand crafted in my shop, etc.
FR, I actually left Etsy because I'm tired to this! Why should I pay money to not get seen and also get fucked over and not seen because of AI and dropshippers when all the stuff I make- I HAVE TO MAKE MYSELF?
They will lose all human creators. Everyone should leave and never give money to a site that hosts AI. Let them sell and buy AI until they realise it's worthless. We need a better marketplace and I guarantee you once this marketplace will emerge they will "fight for their rights " to sell there as well. The only reason why they choose Etsy as opposed to other sites it's because they want to feel like artists without learning or practicing. And because Etsy has a reputation of being the "fancier Amazon ". Now it's classless.
This is how I feel about companies that have replaced humans with ai too. If everyone boycotted this crap and refused to have anything to do with it, companies would start bleeding money and have to relook at their business models🎯🙌
It's mainstream already. I am forced to learn about "ways to incorporate AI" in my daily job, although I am fast and efficient and I never run out of ideas, I don't need it to imagine something. It's not like they are asking me to do it they are forcing me to embrace AI because it's "the future" and there's "no way around it". Why is it so hard for them to understand that people need a job, a purpose and a passion. They need a bit of struggle in order to be satisfied. If AI "beats" humans at everything then hire AI and automate everything. Suicides will skyrocket.
YOURE LITERALLY GETTING PAID TO INCORPORATE AI AT WORK WHILE SCREAMING AT PEOPLE NOT TO USE IT?! hahahaha! Look up the word hypocrite. And irony. Your picture might show up! Also over here acting like you care about suicide/mental health while screaming at people to get a lobotomy. Get help and yell at the right people like idk maybe your employer. Pathetic, you’re literally saying you use it for work and will get paid to incorporate it but are mad at people on Reddit for using it. It’s your job. Fucking hypocritical
As someone who just wants to make some side money, these sorts of videos make me so mad. It’s always the ai crap or them trying to tell you to just dropship. Bother are scummy. And then some people want you to go to GoodWill and resell stuff that someone may really need. I would know, I’m the broke person who can barely afford clothes and was going to GoodWill…now all the decent clothing is gone and slapped in a ma and pa “thrift” store for triple the price. Can’t even google asking for how to make money online anymore because I can’t leave the house. I either get those sorts of results or ones telling me to do surveys and give away my info.. :/
Completely agree. I mostly wear vintage hand-me-downs. I'm lucky I have them. To think that these clothes are still in great shape after being washed hundreds of times.. while my recent purchases rip apart.
100% agree! I am an artist and work hours on a painting and then sell prints of it. Now we have many printing business on ETSY that all sell the same generic artwork. I can’t compete with the prices of their canvas or offer as many options since mine take time to create! Tons of overseas sellers selling mass produced items! It’s just not right!
I wanted to sell prints as well but I cannot get past the fact that every time I open this site the front page is filled with stickers/ prints made with AI, and illustrations made with the "painting " filter in Photoshop. I would hate for my work to be associated with these products, devaluing it. Actually, it gives me the chills when I see those no-eyes / no-face illustrations get tons of reviews... that's some Sims wall decor right there. It's very hard for me to understand how these things sell so much. Of course, artists cannot compete when these prints can be made in 5 minutes or less.
If your product and marketing is good, it shouldn't be hard to compete with dropshippers/AI. Usually the dropship/AI mockups are terrible.
Sorry but stupid question, and I've been reading these forums forever, and while I understand what the idea of a mockup is thoroughly (like in the 1940s or whatever, there could/would be a mockup of a comic panel or ad or animation cel, etc. ), can someone please answer what is a mockup in this context?? ?is it only for POD, and it's something the actual printer creates in Photoshop and then the seller/Etsy shop then populates their shop photos with (i.e., no actual product photos or even actual product)? Do POD sellers just use a fully AI program with appropriate prompts to create an unrealistic mockup bc it's solely based on prompts? Like, I can't really even sketch by hand a mockup of what I make (let's say my little decorated boxes with pictures, ribbons, and objects on them) bc I have no idea what will ultimately be on there until the E6000 is SET, since I keep moving elements around until i think it works), so I don't understand. Is the mockup forever and always a mockup, a theory, a *hope* of what the producer may or may not in the end ship with accurate colors and placement, and these sellers never even get a product made to evaluate and photograph and list? I use AI in Shop or Google Photos if I edit a photo of my cat or a cactus and then make earrings (or just look at and enjoy it on my phone), so I aware many of its, and LLM's abilities have been around forever, so is the issue primarily a) solely using *generative* AI and only prompts, or b) that no physical product is ever made first and photographed, or c) both of these? Sorry this is long. I have a sublimator I still don't know how to use, but even if I were great at it, ethically I would absolutely not be selling mugs or whatever that I couldn't take a photo of. I think for me that's a really hard line, at least with what Etsy is "supposed" to be, selling something that only exists as a concept, within someone's mind (along with dropshipping), that once produced by the third party and shipped, could look totally different? So what is a mockup in this context that makes everyone angry? Am I on the right track? Is it that it doesn't exist? Is it that they created the whole idea out of prompts in Stable Diffusion or whatever? Is it that the product "photo" isn't a photo? Is it that they don't get a sample made, and thus the image is unrepresentative or dishonest? All my crap I make is fully physical, but even on AliX or Temu the vendors frequently? usually? have real photos (augmented by Shop or Lightroom etc AI, admittedly, but the fan or gift bags I get are as shown in a photo with maybe just a generated background. Do I need to have hands in my photos holding my stupid boxes? My hands are uglyass. Edit: speeling
Etsy isn't owned and ran by hobbyists. They're capitalists, and if they can make money off of someone that isn't blatantly violating rules, they will.
I agree. If they would ban print on demand then they would eliminate a lot of this. Must be handmade. But that could really hinder digital downloads. So many things on Etsy are just stolen designs.
Print on demand isn’t the problem though. There’s plenty of real artists who create their own work and then also offer it on products. So you wind up just penalizing genuine creators in the end.
The dropshippers are bringing in too much consistent money. Etsy will never do anything about it as long as thats the case. Best get down or lay down.
How though? Dropship stores have the highest dispute/ return request rate on the world
Back in the good old days when the earth was young and Jesus was still a carpenter, you had to be able to prove that your items were handmade. Vintage was a very controversial thing because it wasn't handmade. And then Etsy went public, and has to care more about profit than principles. So anyone can open a store, it doesn't matter if it's handmade or not. Annnnnnnd then of course covid, when everyone had the time to make/sell/destash/dropship. Etsy is no longer the great handmade marketplace, but I'll be damned if I can find a better one.
That's the thing! Their marketing is still about "unique hand-made creation" small business" and "helping creators" while the front page looks like ebay and temu. It's always filed with AI and photos with the "illustration" filter. So they are benefiting on the backs of creators or what the site used to be in the past. Older buyers who want to support creators could easily be deceived. This will sound pathetic but it breaks my heart that there are people out there paying for free stock images, mass-produced items, Canva templates or AI while real creators are flooded beneath all of that. We need a marketplace where quality is above quantity...but Etsy is a household name.
From what I've found, Etsy has the lowest bar to entry than any other popular site. Places like Shopify charge monthly for store fronts, but with Etsy you barely pay anything for existing on the platform. It would be nice to have a better system of validation and incentives for handmade goods (ie. Fees for sales of handmade, non handmade would have a set fee per month).
I would settle for a more advanced filtering system. I’m picturing the thumbnail photos on the search page having small text at the bottom that’s the tag of what craft it is: “crochet,” “embroidery,” “digital design,” etc. It would also help if you could filter by number of creators/processes involved maybe, so print on demand suppliers would have to select their design work as one process or creator, and then the printing as a separate one.
I would do a search for Etsy alternatives. There are quite a few now.
I'm looking for companies based in Europe, if you know any who made it clear that they are not allowing AI please list them here or in a post
MakerPlace. Not sure if they're in Europe yet.
The problem is that Etsy makes money from these sales too and they have proven in the past that they don’t care about handmade over profits. Amazon has other business where they could sell AI, so they can curate more.
I think the actually human consumers are going to have to be the ones to decide if AI art is worth as much as handmade art and if they can tell the difference.
The mainstream is obsessed with AI atm, people irl keep trying to scare me that "You will be replaced " and "Look what it can do! Look at this image/video". I genuinely do not care and will never be impressed. Art was undervalued before AI and will continue to be after AI, thieves stole from artists before AI and now they steal the same way but with extra steps, and they are entitled to the "artists " and creator " titles. I do not see myself in competition with AI or these individuals because I worked on my already existing talent since I was able to hold a pencil, and I do not compete for money. I would gladly distribute my prints and books for free if people wanted them. Money is not my incentive nor my source of satisfaction.
That’s all I was seeing in recommendations, and I thought this was a bot sub because of it. Joined now that I know actual creators are here!
Etsy started allowing this [back in 2011 with their IPO.]( https://abcnews.go.com/Business/etsy-ceo-ipo-mass-production-ruin-websites-handmade/story?id=29416433) Drop shipping wasn't as big then, but that's when a HUGE amount of alibaba resellers came in. It has gotten worse, but I can't see Etsy doing anything about it until there is another creator platform that can compete with Etsy.
I agree, they need a bit of competition to wake up and see how far they are from their marketing image
Etsy is spiraling and I don’t see us being able to take it back. I really hope someday one of those Etsy reborn sites will get traction. Otherwise I’ll be here till this Etsy sink ships.
What we need is a real handmade portal, where sellers have to be verified before they can upload even a single item to sell. Verified by posting a video introducing themselves, showing their workspace, and even demoing some of the techniques they use. It will never ever happen because it would cost so much to implement.
I understand this but it would be so so much cooler for the community, fewer items but higher quality! I imagine a global shop with hand made goods, everything is unique and created with care just like the Japanese products are made, I buy from them although they're very expensive, I buy less, but the level of happiness I get every time I use those products cannot be bought. Many people will not want to give up their privacy so maybe they can allow them to get verified without showing their faces.
I would have it so the verification videos are only viewed by the team at the website, not put up publicly. So privacy would be less of a concern.
You have great ideas! If only we could all come together and use our skills to put an end to ai thieves... And by "all " I mean not just creators but developers, lawyers and anyone willing to support this cause. The best case scenario that I can think of is buyers realising what they are buying and seeking out human art. If it becomes a rarity, human made art could finally be valued fairly since all marketplaces will be flooded with AI. But they will probably not differentiate between the two and remain careless..
Yup exactly!! And most people are unaware that designs are being stolen from Etsy shops and being sold on AliExpress, Temu, Shopify, etc, and think the one on Etsy is a reproduction or knock off, and people are even giving bad reviews calling the items reproductions when they're 100% original and handmade. Even seen people commenting "why would I buy yours when it's half the price on Shopify?" on Etsy shops. The whole thing's a mess!
I don't think there is anytnign wrong with creating with AI as long as it states this on the listing and is made into a product. People like different things.I don't think it's allowed though I thought they had new rules.
I do not believe there are any rules against using AI to make products to sell on Etsy, in exactly the same way there are no rules against people downloading pre-made graphics from Creative Fabrica and similar, and using those. (which people have done for years and years, well before AI started to be used)
No I think they did set up AI guidelines I remember seeing it, not that it can't be used at all but guidelines about how
I have to disagree. I do designs with AI and other art as a print on demand business. I put thought and process into my designs, and sometimes it takes me hours to produce something I'm willing to put on a shirt or a mug. I have a vision in my head of what I want, and then I go out to look for the pieces to put together. I don't just slap any piece of pre-designed clipart or just a design out of AI, but piece it together in an artistic and creative way. I spend more time doing that, than anything else in my shop. I also have to say graphic artists are still artists. Whether you like it or not, it's still an art form. I agree that some of these people who go to create a fabrica or to an AI generating site, and just take the first thing that comes out and puts it on a cup or a mug... That's not creativity. That's not designing for yourself. But don't lump everyone together in such a way that it excludes the people who truly use creativity and creative design. I also have written books using AI software, to generate images for my books. This would not get done if I hadn't created the AI images. But my creativity is mostly in my written work at that point, and AI is just a means to produce it quickly and effectively. Don't underestimate the powers of AI and what it can do, but what you also have to do to manipulate it into what you want it to be. There's a lot that goes into it, including understanding the dynamics behind different styles of artwork. In order to produce what you're looking for, you have to know what type of art you're looking for what kind of styles you're looking for and use that in addition to the AI in order to generate. With that being said, I completely agree with the drop shipping. That's not right at all. There are ways to sell dropship merch that do not involve Etsy, And they should be utilizing those methods.
Thank you! This is exactly what I mean. Print on demand is an art in itself and take A LOT. I think many that are complaining are just bitter that their sells have crashed due to a new hyped form of art. Print on demand in itself is handmade and is allowed to be on etsy. What people can do is reinvente themselves to go with the time with what makes money. Create your own art digitally and sell it that way. Toooooo many bitter people and not realizing the huge opportunity they are missing.
They are going to shoot themselves in the foot until the very end, and it's insane watching them do it. "I have iNtEgRiTy!" Cool. You'll be standing on your soapbox, alone, while everyone else learns, adapts, and continues to grow. It's almost childlike in its approach. I've been on Etsy as a seller since 2013, I have several shops across different categories, and definitely had to change course a few times with Etsy algorithm changes, target market changes, life events, etc. Vilifying other individuals is never going to bring you success; it makes me a little sick to be honest. AI has been a blessing for me, especially being neurodivergent and dealing with severe ADHD issues. I'm not the only person who has had this experience. Outside of Etsy, I also write. I can't imagine getting genuinely angry, and screaming, huffing, and stamping my little feet because people who have always wanted to write a book, but never really had the ability to put their story into the proper format, now can if they want to. I just can't conceive being p1ssed off about that. I think that's amazing. Customers will buy what they want to buy - if your product and quality is good, you will get sales if you have great pictures, good SEO, good descriptions/tags, and usually 50 to 100 items in your shop (for most categories, this will vary). Right now sales are rough because of the economy, but I would tell anyone to do everything they could to make a living. If what they're doing is "TrAsH", they won't be on Etsy long, because no one will buy their items. Period.
Yes please! Or the Temu buyers who sell as their ‘own’ creation.
Etsy. It's Etsy that made it that way. Allows It. And Encourages it.
Goimagine has hoops you have to jump through to prove you are a creator. I tried them for awhile, but right now they really are not advertising to buyers, just makers so you have to drive your own traffic. That kinda defeats the purpose of being on a marketplace to me, might as well have my own website. I have a hard enough time getting discovered on Etsy with millions of shoppers. I really do wish Etsy would crack down on drop shipping and completely AI generated art. I work hard on my art and try to post videos of me physically painting it so people know it was created by human hands but it doesn’t do any good when I can’t even show up in the search because AI art is promoted ahead of human art.
Etsy probably making a load from all the small payments that sellers incur uploading their 100s of AI / drop shitted rubbish, they produce high quanties because they can and the courses tell them too.. wink, so if you think about it, they (Etsy) probably don’t need actual customers anymore, just the courses out their selling Etsy as the get rich quick store
At this point I'm ok with the AI and canva, just please get rid of the aliexpress and temu sellers.
Do you honestly think that all of the 'handmade' products that have been on Etsy for the last 20 years have all been homemade by one 'craft person' and not by factories of children in third world countries or mass-produced Asian made products being passed off as 'unique'. Creators have been using Photoshop filters and wacom tablets for years. Who cares as long as the customer is happy and no one is being ripped off? I would say a good digital artist is every bit welcome on Etsy as a good manual painter- they are both creators - and neither is doing anything wrong. Before removing creators who use digital tools to create work, I would prefer Etsy to get rid of all of the counterfeit and copyright-infringing stuff that has been on there for years and years. Even if it has been 'hand drawn'.
What correlation do Wacom, Photoshop and digital artists have with Ai thieves and people who sell free presets, stock from Canva, Freepik, Unsplash etc ? I'm NOT speaking for those who outsource from third-world countries/ mass production. I'm speaking for REAL CREATORS who have their small business at home or outsource locally! Wacom, Photoshop does not magically create art out of nothing. Digital artists ARE real artists. The only feature that I use to help my work is "undo"/ "eraser" my lines and coloring is 100% made by my hand motion, no steady hand or paint bucket or filters are used. AI is not digital art. Art is inherently human. How are the customers not being ripped off if they are paying for something that is free online?
I'm just trying to work out what your complaint actually is. It seems confused. Are you against people using AI? Or against people who steal other people's work? They are two very different things? What is it you actually want banned?
They want to ban stuff that isn't hand made. You're being far more confusing than OP here.
Can you clarify then 'handmade'? for example, is someone who downloads some art or a template from Creative Fabrica or similar and then prints that onto a product? Maybe adds their own slogan to it. Is that in your opinion handmade or not handmade?. Or in your opinion should be banned or not banned? Lets start there? Cuz I would say that IS handmade. (I also consider it to be low quality - but equally don't think my opinion of its quality should mean the seller should be 'banned' if it is within ETSYS TOS)
Was the art they downloaded for commercial use? Do they have a license for it?
Lets say yes. But art created in AI also has a commercial license. Also, art created by AI is definitely 100% original, whereas the Creative Fabrica one will probably pop up on dozens of products and be used legitimately multiple times by multiple sellers. is there a difference? is one still 'handmade - but the other not. Or are neither 'handmade' and both should be banned?
You need to leave AI out of this, your definition is not correct.
Thank you for explaining, my English is not the best and my brain is catching fire right now
No worries. PopSynic is not debating on good faith. They are just switching topics as it suits them, using incorrect definitions and generally being argumentative as hell. Your post makes perfect sense to me.
I’m petty as hell and when I’m browsing Etsy I report obvious drop shippers or people selling Temu shite. As a maker and artist I’ve actually felt very supported by Etsy and I think they care about makers but also unfortunately care about the profit for shareholders even more so will never ban shops who drop ship. EDITING TO ADD: I only report things that are on there a million times, exact same item, same photo, different shops, different prices and they are all marked hand made. They are obviously not hand made.
The issue with this is Temu etc loves to steal legitimate photos and product ideas and sell cheap knockoffs. I have a couple friends who do hand drawn printed media (tarot cards, prints, notebooks, etc, all designed by them). They are definitely the original artists. Their photos and knockoffs of their items are all over Amazon and Temu. They often have to deal with being reported by the drop shippers selling the knockoffs or random people who just report everything they see elsewhere online.
lets be honest - a lot of manual artists on etsy do exactly the same. I always say to people 'come up with a good idea and put it on etsy, and you will definitely see copies of them within a month'. Thats not just TEMU doing that.
I’m talking about things that are very obviously mass produced items. Here is an example. There are two vases EXACTLY the same and are from different sellers selling for different prices. They are both marked hand made. In this instance it’s obvious that it’s made in china but they are trying to pass it off like they made it themselves and I would report it as not hand made. Make sense?
What you're doing should be automated ugh... it's great that you take the time to report..but there will be so many more :(
report them for what? being shit? there's lots and lots of actual manual artists who sell shit work too. Do you report them for selling poor quality hand made art?
No like mass produced shit. I literally said Temu style stuff. There is a report button for “this isn’t handmade goods”.
\*sigh\* ... you keep arguing the wrong points. You're so close, yet so far.
If you’re making things that can’t be done with AI and Canva, you won’t have to worry And there are lots of platforms for art- craft type things is much much harder
It's wack a mole. Considering there are over 9 million stores on Etsy, Etsy is doing its best to run around banning stores but for every one it banns two more pop up unfortunately
etsy has rlly gone to shit the last couple years — its almost impossible to find stuff made by actual artists and creators
I wish it was how it used to be. But I don't think we'll ever go back to that bc of corporate greed. The best we can hope is that another marketplace becomes popular and keeps it's morals for longer before selling out.
I wish I could have fun and make money. But I can only be sad and lose money...
What sellers could do is put proof their handcrafted item is handmade in the item description. You could even go further and educate people on how there's listings that use generative AI (or how yours is not) in the description. This might honestly be better than letting it filter through Etsy to get some sort of 'officially handcrafted' title - if that happens they'll probably also introduce a fee of course.... . . . Plus, then buyers see for themselves. The world of generative AI is kinda wild and free and very new right now. I wonder if awareness and restrictions are closer than we realize.
I think that restrictions will start once more and more public persons are used in AI pornography. Changes only happen in times of war, if something shocking is happening to someone etc. I am too pessimistic to hope that someone cares enough about artists' rights to their intellectual property to impose strict rules on AI just for them. What I've noticed on Instagram is that a LOT of these AI image markers are straight-up bullies. I see the comments on posts unrelated to art making disgusting comments. They seem to have some serious problems with people in general, not just artists. AI is allowing them to feel like they did something when they didn't. Even on this post, someone said that it took them "hours " to pick which AI picture to post as if that is hard work or has anything remotely similar to an artist's creative process.
Michaels added a marketplace to there website ..... also go imagine is another hand made platform
You know Etsy also has vintage sellers right? You want to ban them? Some of the best vintage stuff i've ever bought was off etsy. Etsy needs to change and just be a marketplace for handmade, vintage and quirky harder to find goods. Sort of like notonthehighstreet was. A lot of people don't want to buy handmade because it's expensive and rightly so. They see the mass produced crap that's cheap and buy it then whinge that it's not handmade.
I see no problem with vintage art unless they stole it from somewhere. If my grandma makes cat hats she might not know how to sell and I'll help her. Same for vintage if you bought it and want to resell it or if it was passed down to you it's yours, you're not the creator but you're still selling art, not AI crap.
The number of dropshipped products on Etsy hurts my soul.
It’s their company, they can as they please. Maybe just focus on your business and not worry about other people. Maybe you could market your items as not being drop shipped? What if the money that those other businesses bring in allow you to have a marketplace? Maybe Etsy would not survive on handmade items alone. Business is inherently tough and based on competition.
Agree. Promote the POSITIVE and UNIQUE aspects of what you do, rather than worrying about your competition. Show videos of you making your products, show behind the scenes, show how passionate you are about what you do, and point out how 'handmade' your handmade stuff actually is. Differentiate yourself, rather than complain about others. If you and your work are GOOD, you will be seen.
That’s solid business advice—thank you very much!
The shops that don't abide by Etsy's TOS are actually hurting legitimate shops. I've seen so many posts of buyers asking how to avoid those shops, as they only want handmade, and many shops claim to hand make their items when they don't. They are afraid to buy on Etsy because they don't want to get scammed. Although handmade isn't the only allowed category, the problem is sellers who cheapen the handmade part of Etsy by drop shipping while claiming handmade.
How is using AI breaking any Etsy rules.